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News in Brief: Oscars Are Awarded
News in Brief: Oscars Are Awarded. The Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences presents the coveted annual Academy awards - 'Oscars' - during a brilliant star-studded ceremony in the film capital. James Stewart (signing autograph) and wife, Julia Adams (?) and husband), Shelley Winters (alt spelling Shelly Winters) with Vittorio Gassman, Donald O'Connor and wife, Charles Coburn (and woman with him), the N.J. Blumbergs and other film folk attend. Greer Garson at podium, accepting award for Vivian Leigh. Humphrey Bogart wins the Oscar for best actor. Exterior Pantages Theater, night, crowds and cars arriving. A group of ordinary Americans - fans, all women, it seems - applaud as they watch for their favorite stars to arrive.
News in Brief: France, Cat In Tree.
News in Brief: France, Cat In Tree. Here's a quaint little story about a cat stuck in a tree, and the neighbors' arduous efforts to free pussy from her precarious perch. Hungry dogs wait in vain for cat to fall. Dog looking up licks his chops. Would-be hero tries to grab the cat, which struggles and goes falling! - but not to its death because someone has a cloth or net below, and the cat is saved. Thanks goodness. Kitty drinks from bowl while Frenchmen drink some sort of alcohol.
Sports: New York City, All-star Sport Carnival.
Sports: New York City, All-star Sport Carnival. 9,000 fans attend benefit carnival at Madison Square Garden, helping raise money for the Olympic fund. Olympic hopefuls compete in track events, weight lifting, and Olympic champ Dick Button thrills with his skating artistry. Featured athletes include Ollie Sachs (SP?), runner; weight lifters Pete George and John Davis; and ice skater Dick Button.
July 20, 1995 - Part 2
(10:40:29) Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Now, there was a point where there was so many people in the house. The President had come. There were, lit erally, dozens of people who had come to the home spontaneously to comfort Mrs. Foster and Vincent Foster's two sisters, who were present there as well. Is that so? Mr. ROLLA. There wasn't dozens. We had Mr. Watkins and his wife with us, then there was Mr. Hubbell and the two sisters and maybe one of their husbands. I think there were four or five other people besides the four of us that originally got there and, at that point, about 10:50 p.m. or somewhere around there, the President walked in with one Secret Service agent. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Just the President? Ms. BRAUN. Yes. Mr. ROLLA. Yeah, he was by himself. 164 Mr. BEN-VENISTE. You don't recall anyone else who came along? Mr. ROLLA. I don't recall. He walked in, obviously a figure your eyes would turn to. He walked in Mr. BEN-VENISTE. You paid attention? Mr. ROLLA. I see the President, and he immediately walked over to Mr. BEN-VENISTE. If other people arrived with the President or more or less at the same time, your attention was on the President of the United States having arrived? Mr. ROLLA. I know he had only one Secret Service agent, which I thought was slim, but he had only one agent with him, and I don't believe anyone else was with him. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. You don't know who was outside Mr. ROLLA. No. Mr. BEN-VENISTE, -in terms of Secret Service protection? Mr. ROLLA. No, I don't. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. So you wouldn't make the assumption that the President traveled there with only one Secret Service agent? Mr. ROLLA. He had one in the house. That's the only assumption, I made. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Do you have any reason to believe that the number of people who began to come to the house and to console the Fosters was in any way some orchestrated attempt to interfere with your investigation? Mr. ROLLA. No. Mr. BEN-VENISTE, That would be absurd, wouldn't it? Mr. ROLLA. Yes. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. You could see how the expressions of grief and shock about this tragedy affected all of the people, including the President of the United States. Mr. ROLLA. Obviously there was grief there, but there was also * very businesslike attitude between some people who maintained * businesslike appearance, constant telephone calls, constant work. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. People had to be notified in Arkansas and around the country who knew Mr. Foster in the hope that they could be notified personally before they heard this news on the television. That wouldn't surprise you, would it? Mr, ROLLA. No. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Now, Detective Rolla, you were not present when Sergeant Braun had her conversation with Mr. Watkins at the very end of your stay there? Mr. ROLLA. I was standing next to her. We were on our way out the door. We decided it was time for us to go. I just didn't hear that' statement. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Sergeant Braun, do you recall the exact words you used to Mr. Watkins regarding Mr. Foster's office? Ms. BRAUN. No, I do not. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. You don't know whether you said it would be a good idea if his office were locked or if his office were secured Ms. BRAUN. I think I probably said something to the effect--I made my request that the office be secured, and I assumed he understood what I meant. 165 Mr. BEN-VENISTE. You did not say to Mr. Watkins please ensure that no one enter the office; I want that communicated to everyone at the White House? Ms. BRAUN. No, I don't think I was that detailed with him. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. You did not say that, Mr. Rolla? Mr. ROLLA, No, I did not. Mr. BEN-VE NISTE. Mr. Hines, you did not say that? Mr. HINES. No, I did not. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. With respect to what you expected, was that at some point after you communicated this request, the office would be locked up?
July 20, 1995 - Part 2
(10:45:13) Ms. BRAUN. Yes, sir. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. You left at 11:10. Ms, BRAUN. Yes. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. As has been established here, the office was indeed locked for the evening within a half hour of that request, but no one told you this; correct? Ms. BRAUN. That's correct. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Clearly there was no suggestion of putting some kind of evidence tape over the White House Counsel's suite or any other place in the White House to form a physical barrier that no one could pass? Ms. BRAUN. That wouldn't be reasonable. That wouldn't be what we were looking for. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. The Secret Service was present that evening with the President, and you know that they are responsible for the physical integrity of the White House as well as the President and his family? Ms. BRAUN. Yes, sir. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. If any drastic step was in your mind in terms of affecting the physical integrity of the White House or some portion of it, you knew that the Secret Service would be an appropriate agency to contact? Ms. BRAUN. Yes. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Did either of you talk to Captain Hume or Detective Markland, the two police officers who reported to the White House the next day? Mr. ROLLA. Yes. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. On that evening, on the evening of July 20, 1993? Ms. BRAUN. Not that evening. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Did you talk to them on July 21, 1993, at any point? Ms. BRAUN. Yes, I spoke to Captain Hume. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Did you talk to Detective Markland? Ms. BRAUN. No, I did not. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Major Hines, you indicated that you learned that Mr. Nussbaum and Ms. Williams and Ms. Thomasson entered the White House Counsel's Office on the evening of July 20, 1993 from the newspapers; is that correct? Mr. HINES. Yes, sir. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Did you have any continuing supervisory role in this investigation? 166 Mr. HINES. No, sir, I did not. After the briefing, I had no supervisory role in the investigation. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. We've gone through this question of reports. Let me ask you, Sergeant Braun and Detective Rolla, it is clear, is it not, that there is no reference to a request made of Mr. Watkins in your reports of July 20, 1993; isn't that so? Mr. ROLLA. That's correct. Ms. BRAUN. That's correct. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. You've reviewed your reports carefully? Ms. BRAUN. Yes. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. They have no reference to any conversation with Mr. Watkins? Ms. BRAUN. That's correct. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Major Hines, let me ask that Mr. Markland's report be put on the screen for you. See if you can identify that. We can get you a hard copy of that. It's technology beyond my personal ability to work. I'm a hard copy kind of person, so if the report of Mr. Markland's can be provided to the panel Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Mr. Chairman Mr, BEN-VENISTE. It looks a little fuzzy to me. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Mr. Chairman, I understand there's a vote going on right now. The CHAIRMAN. Yes, Senator. I intended to let Mr. Ben-Veniste have at least another 5 minutes and then we'll take a 5-minute break. We have about 10 minutes left on the vote. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. All right. Thank you. The CHAIRMAN. Provide the witness with a hard copy. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. This has been identified as Exhibit 29 produced by the Park Police, and it is Detective Markland's report of July 21, 1993, which Detective Markland has testified he prepared on the night of July 21, 1993.
News in Brief: Royal Visit.
News in Brief: Royal Visit. King Gustav (Gustaf VI Adolf) of Sweden pays a state visit to Denmark with Queen Louise. And the full pageantry of the Danish capital is unrolled for him. The hosts are Queen Ingrid and King Frederik IX. The visitors get off a train. The two kings ride in an open horse-drawn carriage past flag-waving crowds.
July 20, 1995 - Part 2
(11:14:32) Hearing resumes: The CHAIRMAN. The Committee will resume. As we adjourned, counsel for the Minority was in the process of examining some documents. Mr. Ben-Veniste will return. We had 6 minutes on the clock. Please set it back and make it 10 minutes, because you were interrupted, so you'll have the additional time, If you need more, we will permit it. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Senator, hopefully I'll use less, but thank you Now, I haven't put this report of Detective Markland in front of you, Major Hines, for any purpose other than to establish that, according to Detective Markland's report, it is clear that on the morning of July 21, 1993 Mr. Nussbaum told Detective Markland that he, together with Maggie Williams and Patsy Thomasson , had conducted a brief search of the office to attempt to discover a note, but 167 that that search had proved uneventful. Do you see that in the report? Mr. HINES. Yes, I do. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Do you recognize that as a regular Park Police report of investigation signed by Detective Markland? Mr. HINES Yes, I do. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Had you wished to follow the course of the investigation and be apprised of developments in it, you would have had access to this report? Mr. HINES. I would have, but on Friday, July 23, 1993, 1 went on vacation and was absent the whole next week, so I didn't read any reports. That's why I read it first in the newspaper. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. So that's a pretty good explanation for that. It wasn't because you were being inattentive to the developments in the investigation, you were just not available at that time to receive Detective Markland's report of July 21, 1993. But, clearly, Sergeant Braun and Detective Rolla, you have recognized that this is a report of Detective Markland who took over the investigation the following day; correct? Mr. ROLLA. That's correct. Ms. BRAUN. That's correct. Mr. BEN-VENISTE, It is clear from that report that Mr. Nussbaum reported to Detective Markland and Captain Hume on July 21, 1993 that he, together with Patsy Thomasson and Margaret Williams, had conducted a brief search of Mr. Foster's office on the night of July 20, 1993 in the hope of discovering a note; is that correct? Ms. BRAUN. Yes, that's correct. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Now, there are two inaccuracies there that have been clarified by Detective Markland. Obviously, the first is where he says Mr. Foster, he means Mr. Nussbaum. In the second, where he says that the search took place between 2200 and 2400 hours, he has corrected that in his testimony. So I don't wish to leave a false impression with those who are not familiar with the details of the 60 or so depositions we've taken in the course of preparation for these hearings. In your briefing the morning of July 21, 1993, Major Hines, what did you wish to communicate to the White House? Mr. HINES. The wish that Chief Langston and I wished to--correction. Our purpose was to visit the White House and brief them on what we knew about the suicide of Mr. Foster, to establish some protocol and let them know about what the investigative process we would go through would be. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Did you make any report of that briefing? Mr. HINES. No, I did not. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. To the best of your recollection, did you say that this was an apparent suicide? Mr. HINES. Yes, I did. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Did you provide other details regarding the scene of Mr. Foster's death? Mr. HINES. One person did ask me where he shot himself. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. The Fort Marcy area was not a crime scene, it was the scene of an apparent suicide as far as what you were reporting to the White House that morning? 168 Mr. HINES. I reported that it was the scene of a suicide, but we treat all death investigations like a crime. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. At some point you came to the conclusion---you the Park Police-that, in fact, your initial conclusion was supported by evidence and the case was closed out as a suicide; is that fair to say? Mr. HINES. Yes, it was, Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Now, let's go to the question of the search warrant, which has come up here before. There was no suggestion was there, that any attempt would be made to obtain a search war' rant for Mr. Foster's office? Is that correct, Sergeant? Ms. BRAUN. That's correct. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Detective? Mr. ROLLA. Yeah, that's correct. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Major? Mr. HINES. That's correct. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. A search warrant would not have been appropriate or legally obtainable in your view, would it? Mr. HINES. That's correct, without any evidence of a crime being committed. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Thank you, sir. Now, you talked about the cooperation of individuals in assist ing in your investigation, and you were told by Mr. Nussbaum and others that the White House would indeed cooperate; is that correct?
New Commander: Gen. Clark Succeeds Ridgway As UN Chief.
New Commander: Gen. Clark Succeeds Ridgway As UN Chief. General Mark Clark takes over command of United Nations forces in Korea, as General Matthew Ridgway (for search purposes: Matthew Ridgeway) leaves to take over NATO forces in Europe, succeeding General Eisenhower. General Ridgway says farewell to unit chiefs and General Clark greets his new command. General Van Fleet is in some of these pictures, too. A crowd of photographers (they look to be military personnel) take aim with their cameras.
Personalities in the News: World Mother.
Personalities in the News: World Mother. Madame Rosa Videla, first lady of Chile, is honored for her work in child welfare as mother of the world. Also singled out by the American Mothers' Committee is Mrs. Toy Le Goon (SP?) of San Francisco named American Mother 1952. The ladies pose.
News in Brief: New Jet Giant.
News in Brief: New Jet Giant. The Air Force takes the wraps off its new eight-jeb B-60 bomber. Details are secret but its first public flight is impressive. (Technically this is a YB-60, according to the lettering on the plane.) VS bomber on runway, then taking off.
News in Brief: Maryland, Train Tragedy.
News in Brief: Maryland, Train Tragedy. Fifteen cars of ninety-seven-car freight train are strewn over the main Washington-New York tracks. Naphtha-laden cars cause spectacular blaze (not shown). Various shots of the aftermath, train cars upside-down and twisted, people walking around the scene.
Personalities in the News: Austrian Chancellor.
Personalities in the News: Austrian Chancellor. Chancellor Leopold Figl pays a visit to say thanks for U.S. aid to Austria, but also says no separate peace treaty will be signed. He climbs down airplane steps at airport, poses with his wife (?).
July 20, 1995 - Part 2
(11:20:45) Mr. HINES. That was my understanding. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Who was it that brought Captain Hume and Detective Markland into the investigation? Mr. HINES. The position that they occupy is in the Criminal Investigations Branch. Death investigations fall within the scope of the Criminal Investigations Branch, Captain Hume is the Assistant Commander of that branch and it's their normal business to investigate such things. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. But who actually notified them that they ought to respond to the White House the following morning'? Mr. HINES. It would be a normal investigative proced ure to respond to the place of employment of a person who committed sui- cide. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. But somebody had to tell them. Do you know who? Ms. BRAUN. I spoke to Captain Hume. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. What time did you speak with Captain Hume? Ms. BRAUN. I spoke to him at around 6:30 in the morning when he came into work. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. You told him that he ought to respond to the White House that morning? Ms. BRAUN. I briefed him on what the situation was, what the scene was like what Investigator Rolla and I had do and on what request had been made, what information we had found out and what still needed to be done. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Do you know that, according to the testimony of Captain Hume, he did not recall that you told him anything about making a request to lock the office? Ms. BRAUN. No, I don't know that. 169 Mr. BEN-VENISTE. OK. Now, they responded, Hume and Markland, to the White House at 8:30 in the morning. They were escorted by Secret Service agents to the West Wing. They sat and waited. What time was your briefing? Mr. HINES. Our briefing was around 10 a.m. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Do you recall exactly what time it was, because there are differing recollections about what time? Is it reflected in any report? Mr. HINES. No, it's not. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Might it have broken up as late as 11:30? Mr. HINES. It could have been between 11 and 11:30. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. OK. Mr. Nussbaum was with you? Mr. HINES. Yes, he was. Mr. BEN-VE NISTE. So he couldn't be answering any questions or providing any assistance to Detective Markland and Captain Hume at that point; correct? Mr. HINES. For clarity, are we talking about July 21, 1993? Mr. BEN-VENISTE. July 21, 1993, Mr. HINES. That's correct. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Captain Hume and Detective Markland are sitting off in the West Wing hoping to get started doing what they hoped to do while you were briefing Mr. Nussbaum in another part of the building? Mr. HINES. That's correct. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. You have learned since that they got upset because they were sitting out in the hallway cooling their heels when they thought they ought to be doing something? Mr. HINES. Let me explain that I do not recollect that Captain Hume and Detective Markland were sitting in the West Wing at 8:30 in the morning on the morning of July 21, 1993. 1 met Detective Markland and Captain Hume as I was leaving the White House in the old West Executive Avenue parking lot, and I briefed them that we had just talked to some staff people and told them the protocol and what we would be expecting to do. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. You don't recall whether they told you what time they had arrived at the West Wing that morning? Mr. HINES. No, I don't recall. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. OK. But, Sergeant Braun, you recall telling Captain Hume at 6:30 in the morning that he ought to respond to the White House? Ms. BRAUN. I told him, yes, what we had done and what I thought still needed to be done. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. So you wouldn't argue with the notion that during the time that you were briefing Mr. Nussbaum, and, indeed, even prior to that, Detective Markland and Captain Hume had thought that some arrangement had been made for them to talk to Mr. Nussbaum that same morning at that same time? Mr. HINES. No, I would not. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Just a mix-up? Mr. HINES. Yes, sir. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Honest mistake? Mr. HINES. Yes. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Finally-I see that my time is 170 The CHAIRMAN. Counsel, why don't you conclude this. I think that's the way we want to do it. I intend to give that flexibility to both sides. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. I think I've pretty well covered where I want to go. Thank you. The CHAIRMAN. You don't wish to conclude? Mr. BEN-VENISTE. I think we're at a good point. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Shelby, OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR RICHARD C. SHELBY Senator SHELBY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Major Hines, I believe-without trying to go over all the testimony and be redundant here-you were present at the briefing that was held by the Park Police at the White House the day after Mr. Foster's death; is that correct?
July 20, 1995 - Part 2
(11:25:43) Mr. HINES. Yes, I was. senator SHELBY. Who else was present there at this briefing? Mr. HINES. There were several people. As I've said, Mr. Nussbaum was there. Senator SHELBY. Mr. Nussbaum was there. Mr. HINES. Mr. Hubbell was there. Senator SHELBY. Mr. Hubbell was there. Mr. HINES. Mr, Watkins was there. Senator SHELBY. Mr. Watkins was there. Mr. HINES. Mr. Stephanopoulos was there. Senator SHELBY. Stephanopoulos was there. Mr. HINES. There was a host of other people there. Senator SHELBY. Who was there, besides you, from the Park Police that you recall? Mr. HINES. Chief Robert Langston. Senator SHELBY. Were there any FBI agents there? Mr. HINES, I did not notice any FBI agents. Senator SHELBY. At that point? Mr. HINES. At that point. Senator SHELBY. Now, what was the purpose of the briefing, other than to tell them what your normal procedures were? Mr. HINES. Just a courtesy call, a protocol call to tell them what our procedures would be and we needed their assistance Senator SHELBY. What you needed to do? Mr. HINES. Yes. Senator SHELBY. What did you tell them you needed to do? Mr. HINES. That we wanted to go in and look at his office and we needed to interview his co-workers and determine his Senator SHELBY. You mean to search his office or look through his office? Mr. HINES. Look through his office for any indication of his state of mind and did he leave a suicide note. Senator SHELBY. Who was it that you were mainly talking to? Mr. Nussbaum? Mr. HINES. It was a whole group of people. I was addressing a whole group. Senator SHELBY. Was he the lead figure in the group, though? 171 Mr. HINES. He was-I couldn't characterize him as being the lead figure in the group. Senator SHELBY. What did he say when you said that? Did he say it was OK? Mr. HINES. I don't recall what he said or-I mean, I was addressing a whole group, so I didn't recall any specific Senator SHELBY. Did anybody object what you were talking to about, going in the office at that time to look through the office looking for anything that would help you in your investigation? Mr. HINES. No one objected at that time. Senator SHELBY. Did Mr. Stephanopoulos say basically, if you recall, that you should proceed as you would in any normal investigation? Mr. HINES. To the best of my recollection, that's what lie said. Senator SHELBY. OR About what time of the morning was this on July 21, 1993? Mr. HINES. It was between 10 and 11 a.m. Senator SHELBY. How long did you stay there? Mr. HINES. I would think about 45 minutes or an hour. Senator SHELBY. Did you proceed to go into the office? Mr. HINES, No, I did not. Senator SHELBY. What happened? Mr. HINES. It would not be my job to go into the office. Senator SHELBY, OK. Did you have people there that were ready to go into the office? Mr. HINES. I met Captain Hume and Detective Markland in the parking lot. Senator SHELBY. In the parking lot as you were leaving? Mr. HINES. Yes, I did. Senator SHELBY. What did you say to them, if anything? Mr. HINES. I told them, basically, that we had just briefed members of the White House staff and that we explained the investigative process that we'd be going through and they were expecting members of our Criminal Investigations Branch to be there. Senator SHELBY. Did anyone from the Park Police or the FBI that day, on July 21, 1993, go into Mr. Foster's office and look for evidence that would help you conclude your investigation? Mr. HINES. Not to my knowledge. Senator SHELBY. OK. Why didn't they go in there? Mr. HINES. I do not know. Senator SHELBY. Do you know if there was ever an agreement between the White House and the Justice Department setting out the parameters of a search of the office? Mr. HINES. I did not know of such an agreement until later on July 21, 1993. Senator SHELBY. You learned of it later? Mr. HINES. I learned of that later. Senator SHELBY. What time of the day did you learn of that? Mr. HINES. It was probably in the afternoon of July 21, 1993. Senator SHELBY. What was that agreement? What was the basis of that agreement? Mr. HINES, I only know that they had established a protocol. What was included in that protocol for the examination of the office, I do not know. 172 Senator SHELBY. Who would know in your- Mr. HINES. Captain Hume would probably know. Senator SHELBY, Captain Hume. Would any of these people here at the table know? Mr. HINES. No, they would not. Senator SHELBY. But, in any event, you were not able to go in that office to complete your investigation that day? Mr. HINES. On July 21, 1993, we were not in the office. Senator SHELBY. Did people from the Park Police go in on the following day, July 22, 1993? Mr. HINES. I believe, on July 22, 1993, they did go into the office Senator SHELBY. Was Mr. Nussbaum in the office then along with others? Mr. HINES. I was not present, but based on the knowledge that I have, yes, he was in the office. Senator SHELBY. Were you able-the Park Police-to conduct a normal investigation at the White House office that day, what you would call normal procedure? Mr. HINES. Any time you have a suicide of such a high member of the White House staff, I don't think any of that investigation would be normal. Senator SHELBY. Because of the high rank Mr. HINES. Because of the high-ranking figure Senator SHELBY. -and where he worked?
July 20, 1995 - Part 2
(11:30:36) Mr. HINES. I understand there was a host of several people to go into the office and examine the office. However, they did not search or read any paper, to my knowledge, or any piece of evidence. Senator SHELBY. Do you know from your knowledge that Mr. Nussbaum was in that office at the time-was one of the seven people, in other words, in the office when the investigation contin- ued? Was Mr. Nussbaum one of the seven people in the office? Mr. HINES. Yes, he was one of the people in the office. Senator SHELBY. Did he go through documents or say that this is personal and this is something you can look at? How did he help orchestrate what was going on in the office? Mr. HINES. Senator, I do not have any firsthand knowledge, only reading the reports and what was told to me by our investigators As you described it, that's how he conducted the examination. (11:31:43)(tape #10116 ends)
Sports Thrills.
Sports Thrills. "From water-skiing thrills to spine-tingling crack-ups on the bob-sled run, 1951 saw many thrills and spills. The rodeo thrills were bigger and better, and the jumps at the Grand National never were so dramatic, but the most amazing spectacle of all was the mass crack-up of hot-rod racers at Langhorne, Pennsylvania. Scores of cars collided on the dirt track." Various sports spills, falls, errors. Skiers and ski jumpers, some crashing. Bobsled crash. Running of the bulls. Bull gets a good hit at matador. Motorcyclists on dirt track. Very bad multiple crashes in hot rod auto race; one car bursts into flames.
July 20, 1995 - Part 3
(11:30:01)(tape #10117 begins) investigation at the White House office that day, what you would call normal procedure? Mr. HINES. Any time you have a suicide of such a high member of the White House staff, I don't think any of that investigation would be normal. Senator SHELBY. Because of the high rank Mr. HINES. Because of the high-ranking figure Senator SHELBY. -and where he worked? Mr. HINES. -and where he worked, yes. Senator SHELBY. Do you know who ultimately went into the office and conducted a search or tried to conduct a search from the Park Police or the FBI? (11:30:36) Mr. HINES. I understand there was a host of several people to go into the office and examine the office. However, they did not search or read any paper, to my knowledge, or any piece of evidence. Senator SHELBY. Do you know from your knowledge that Mr. Nussbaum was in that office at the time-was one of the seven people, in other words, in the office when the investigation contin- ued? Was Mr. Nussbaum one of the seven people in the office? Mr. HINES. Yes, he was one of the people in the office. Senator SHELBY. Did he go through documents or say that this is personal and this is something you can look at? How did he help orchestrate what was going on in the office? Mr. HINES. Senator, I do not have any firsthand knowledge, only reading the reports and what was told to me by our investigators As you described it, that's how he conducted the examination. (11:31:43)(tape #10116 ends) Senator SHELBY. Were you concerned about the inability of the Park Police and the FBI to get into that office to complete your investigation? Mr. HINES. At that time I did have some concerns. Senator SHELBY. What were those concerns? That this was unusual behavior? Mr. HINES. There were concerns because we were there to look for a limited scope of the reasons that Vince Foster would take his own life. We had to determine did he have any motive or reason, the state of his mind, and, at the same time when we determined that, we could also rule out that there might have been foul play 173 involved. So it was at that time that I had concern on the next 2 days after his suicide. Senator SHELBY. Did you have a conversation with Captain Hume sometime after July 22, 1993 regarding how the search was actually conducted in contradiction to the agreement? Mr. HINES. I didn't know if it was in contradiction to an agreement, but Captain Hume and I did talk about the conduct of the search. Senator SHELBY. What did he tell you? Mr. HINES. He told me, as we explained, that Mr. Nussbaum handled all the papers and said this is private, this is public, this is lawyer work, and piled them up in stacks like that. Senator SHELBY. How long did they stay in the office, there in Mr. Foster's office? Mr. HINES. I do not recall. Senator SHELBY. You don't know if it was hours or minutes or what, do you? Mr. HINES. I think it was hours, but I don't recall. Senator SHELBY. In other words, Mr. Hines, did Mr. Hume tell you that, basically, the FBI and the Park Police were not allowed to look at hardly anything? Mr. HINES. That's what he told me. Senator SHELBY. OR In other words, it wasn't much of an examination of the office, was it? Mr. HINES. From his perception, no. Senator SHELBY. What's Mr. Hume's position with the Park Police? Mr. HINES. Mr. Hume is the Assistant Commander of the Criminal Investigations Branch. Senator SHELBY. Is he highly experienced in these types of inves- tigations, criminal investigations or suicide investigations? Mr. HINES. Yes, he is. Senator SHELBY. Is he still with the Park Police? Mr. HINES. Yes, he is. Senator SHELBY. Does he have an excellent reputation as a police officer with the Park Police? Mr. HINES. Yes, he does. He is a very good investigator. Senator SHELBY. Do you know or have you heard of an FBI agent named Scott Salter? Mr. HINES. Only in the reports that I've read. Senator SHELBY. You've read about it and you've read a report where his name was mentioned? Mr. HINES. Yes, I have. Senator SHELBY. Do you know if he was accused by the White House Counsel, Mr. Cliff Sloan, of trying to peek at documents on the desk when he merely stood up to stretch during Mr. Nuss- baum's search of the office? Mr. HINES. Yes, the first I heard of that was when I read it in the paper. Senator SHELBY. Do you hear many complaints like that dealing with the FBI? Mr. HINES. No, I haven't. 174 Senator SHELBY. Would you characterize the interference or the
Sea Epic: Captain Winning Fight to Save Stricken Ship.
Sea Epic: Captain Winning Fight to Save Stricken Ship. "First films of a dramatic saga of man-against-the-sea. Captain Henrik Carlsen sticks with his ship, the freighter 'Enterprise,' broken and listed after a hurricane hit her. With a British tug finally getting her in tow, the 'Enterprise' and her valiant skipper are heading for Falmouth - and triumph." Aerials of the freighter lying on its side, sort of, floating on the ocean. Shots on shore, stormy waves crashing onto the land. VS homes damages by the storm; through one broken wall the sea is visible.
Churchill In U.S.: Confers with Truman and Defense Chiefs
Churchill In U.S.: Confers with Truman and Defense Chiefs "Britain's dynamic Prime Minister arrives on the 'Queen Mary' for a brief New York welcome, then flies to Washington for top-level discussions on vital subjects affecting Britain and this country. At the airport, where President Truman greets him, Mr. Churchill speaks eloquently for harmony and close bonds between his country and ours." Liner Queen Mary sailing. Tugboat pushing Queen Mary. VS British Prime Minister Winston Churchill in the process of his travel, press nearby. Plane taxiing, U.S. Capitol dome in background. Churchill deplanes, greets President Harry Truman (there seems to be a sincere mutual respect) and others. Churchill, standing at press microphones (press conference) with Truman at his side, says he hopes together (and, in his words, "through your vast strength"), the two nations may bring "peace and hope and salvation on earth to struggling mankind." Truman agrees: "Peace on earth is what we're both striving for; thank you, sir." VS Truman and Churchill on ship. British Foreign Minister Anthony Eden and U.S. Secretary of State Dean Acheson, together, looking like they were twins separated at birth. Various photo ops of Churchill and Truman, with other officials around them.
July 20, 1995 - Part 3
(11:35:20) Mr. HINES. I would characterize it as unusual in our normal experiences, but, again, it's unusual for us to go to the White House and make that type of investigation. Senator SHELBY, Did you wonder if they had something to hide in those papers there? Mr. HINES. I just wondered why we didn't have any cooperation because we were only looking for limited information about why Mr. Foster would commit suicide, was there anything on his mind that might tend to have him take his own life. Senator SHELBY. But it was unusual procedure that was going on and it gave you reason to question what was going on, really? Mr. HINES. That was our perception. Senator SHELBY. OK. Thank you. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Sarbanes. Senator SARBANES. Senator Dodd. Senator DODD. Thank you, Senator. I'll take a few minutes then turn to counsel. First, let me thank all three of you. You've been before us before. You begin to wonder, I suppose, what your careers are. I suppose you spend a great deal of time just on this and there's a great deal of respect that all of us have for the jobs you have to do. Certainly, you probably didn't anticipate on that day in July two years ago that you'd be spending this much time going back and recounting events and details of those several days. So I thank you immensely for the time you dedicated to this and the effort that you've made to share with this Committee and others your recollections. I understand, and I appreciate immensely your jobs and your training and what you've got to do. Obviously, none of you knew Mr. Foster, I presume, before, you didn't know the family. You get a report the afternoon of July 20, 1993, late afternoon, and you respond to it, Sergeant Braun and Investigator Rolla, and you are doing your job, in effect. I wonder if you might, because I think it gets to the heart of what we're talking about here-you've got your job to do as investigators and we're trying to determine motivations and so forth, intents of people. The accusation is, in effect, by some that there was a corrupt intent here to somehow deprive investigators, you and others, of doing your job. That's the assumption some people have drawn. Others are saying they're not sure about that, it doesn't look that way necessarily. You are dealing with a traumatic event, here and the people were acting in a rather human way given the circumstances. We're asking you, in a sense, to try to shed some light on this, and there will be those who will obviously try to get' you to characterize these situations so that it reinforces the argument that there was some intent in that regard. I wonder if you might be able to step back a little bit and let me begin with you, Sergeant Braun and Mr. Rolla, Are you an officer, Mr. Rolla? I didn't get your- Mr. ROLLA. Detective. Senator DODD. Detective. I'm sorry. Give us a feel for this. Obviously, You ' re being very analytical, your reports require you to do 175 so, just what the facts are, the times, the dates and what people say. I guess I should, first of all, begin by asking both of you, have you ever been involved in a suicide situation in the past? Ms. BRAUN, Yes. Senator DODD. You have, Sergeant? Ms. BRAUN, Yes. Senator DODD. So you've had some familiarity with how people react. You've had to notify a family? Ms. BRAUN. Yes, I've done notifications. Senator DODD. What normally happens? What are people like when you do that? MS. BRAUN. They're initially very upset, and then they are very inquisitive as to what happened, did the people suffer, things like that. Senator DODD. That was the case here when you went to the Foster home and, Mr. Rolla, as you say-and I appreciate entirely your job there at that point, taught and trained to go in and have to break that news- that's the toughest thing you have to do. Did Mrs. Foster and her family react in a predictable way? Mr. ROLLA. Very predictable. Traumatic. Senator DODD, Cried? Mr. ROLLA. Crying, screaming, collapsing. Senator DODD. You were there how long? About an hour; is that right? Mr. ROLLA. About an hour. Senator DODD. Hour, hour and a half, something like that? Ms. BRAUN. Hour, hour and 10 minutes. Mr. ROLLA. We got there at 10 p.m. and we cleared at 11.10, according to reports. Senator DODD. In the space of that time, it's a handful of people as you arrived and the crowd begins to gather, as I understand; is that correct? Mr. ROLLA. No other people arrived, other than the President, once we originally got there that I'm aware of. Senator DODD. So it was just, so just Ms. BRAUN. They arrived-the group arrived upon our heels of going up into the doorway, and that's the only group that came other than the President, who arrived at about 11 p.m. Senator DODD. OK. Did you talk to each individual person there, however limited, for a few minutes or less than that?
News in Brief: New Carrier Catapult.
News in Brief: New Carrier Catapult. British carrier at sea demonstrates new catapult that can get aircraft aloft even while ship is at anchor. Film shows various stages of tests, from dead weight and pilotless plane (which crashes into the water) to jets speeding away successfully. Invention, innovation, technology.
July 20, 1995 - Part 3
(11:40:20) Mr. ROLLA. Some people were not approachable. We tried to talk to different people. We talked to-I think we talked briefly to both sisters. I had more of a rapport with Mrs. Foster, so I talked to her. Cheryl talked to Laura, the daughter. The sons weren't home. We talked to Mr, Watkins. Other than that, we didn't talk to anyone else there. Senator DODD. But their responses and actions were not out of the ordinary in your experience-maybe, again, I'll focus this on you, Ms. Braun--in your experience in dealing with that reluctance to talk, being grief stricken, highly emotional, this is a normal pattern, you were not necessarily surprised by how people were reacting? Ms. BRAUN. I think we were, a little bit, in that it was so businesslike and in that nobody seemed-that this was a complete sur- 176 prise to everybody, and I don't think in a suicide that is a normal-- suicide isn't normally a complete surprise to the family. I feel that-and this is my own personal opinion-that there might have been a little bit of damage control going on, in that this could have possibly been an embarrassing situation for the White House arid so they were reluctant to let us know that, yes, Mr. Foster had been depressed. Things could have been a lot simpler if they had just been up front with us from the beginning, yes, he was depressed, yes, I gave him the names of psychiatrists. We didn't get that information. Senator DODD. That's a conclusion you drew as-have you done suicide investigations -of high-ranking officials in other positions or people of note? Ms. BRAUN. No, I have not. Senator DODD. So there's nothing to compare that with necessarily. It's just a feeling Ms, BRAUN. As I said, it's my personal opinion. Senator DODD. How about you, Mr. Rolla? Mr. ROLLA. I agree with her. One of the things is we didn't want so many people there at one time. We believe in. bringing a close friend, a pastor, somebody, a relative, to help comfort because we certainly didn't want anyone to be alone during this time. But, as I stated before, there comes a time after the initial grief-it's a shock or whatever-that there's information exchanged. They want to know things from us and we get things from them that help us. Depending on the type of case, it's a death investigation where expediency of the information is very important and whether-of course this was all looking like a suicide, leaning that way from the very beginning, but it would have been-we needed to know was he receiving-was there anything out of the ordinary. Was he getting death threats or threatening letters or what. Again, was he depressed, was there some reason to believe that. Overall, I understand people in that-with everyone there, I think maybe there was reluctance on Mrs. Foster's part to talk to us maybe out of embarrassment, not wanting to talk in front of other people. Senator DODD. Do you know what Mrs. Foster's religion is? Mr. ROLLA. I believe they're Catholic. Senator DODD. Were you aware of that at the time? Ms. BRAUN. No. Mr. ROLLA. No. Senator DODD. Let me just mention that that can be a factor as well, given the whole notion of suicide and people of Catholic faith in terms of their views of suicide. Did it occur to you that that might be a part of the thinking as well? Mr. ROLLA. I'm Catholic and if it's embarrass-it occurred to me that it might be embarrassing in front of all those other people. He killed himself. The family isn't going to deal with that with God; he is, as far as their religion is concerned. So in terms of embarrassment, maybe with several other people showing up at that time, maybe she felt less like talking to us about certain things. That's why I like not to go with so many people. Senator DODD. You would understand that? Mr. ROLLA. Yes. 177 Senator DODD. When you approached Mr. Watkins, Sergeant Braun, did you seek out Mr. Watkins or was this in terms of the exchange about securing the office? Ms. BRAUN. Mr. Watkins became like a liaison with us. Since we were asked to contact him because he wanted to go with us to do the notification he fell into that role as being the liaison, So he was the person that I dealt directly with in making my request. Senator DODD. Did you seek him out specifically as you were going out or did this come up in the conversation just as you were leaving? Was it an afterthought or was it something you went specifically to him to raise? Ms. BRAUN. We had stopped to speak to him and to exchange our business cards with Mr. Watkins to let them know if they had any information that they should call us, if they came upon any information that they should call us, and then he made his request about us not releasing Mr. Foster's name to the media, and then I, in turn, made my request to have the office sealed so that we could go through it in the morning.
News in Brief: Storm Lashes Spain.
News in Brief: Storm Lashes Spain. Waves of tidal wave proportion lash the coast near this Spanish resort, sending hundreds fleeing for their lives and causing terrific damage. Seawalls are crumpled by the fury of the raging sea. A few shots of large waves crashing against wall. A few onlookers run for cover. VS damage along the coast caused by the storm.
News in Brief: California, House with the Creeps.
News in Brief: California, House with the Creeps. Owner removes his belongings and prepares to flee as rains weaken foundation, causing house to slip ten feet from its hilltop site. Another day may see the house topple into street below. House perched precariously near top of hill. Men dig away dirt that has covered a fire hydrant. Police officer places an emergency no parking sign on street. Movers carry piece of furniture out of house (this one shot could pass for an ordinary moving situation). VS the damage already caused to the house by this slow landslide.