July 20, 1995 - Part 2
July 20, 1995 - Part 2
(11:20:45) Mr. HINES. That was my understanding. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Who was it that brought Captain Hume and Detective Markland into the investigation? Mr. HINES. The position that they occupy is in the Criminal Investigations Branch. Death investigations fall within the scope of the Criminal Investigations Branch, Captain Hume is the Assistant Commander of that branch and it's their normal business to investigate such things. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. But who actually notified them that they ought to respond to the White House the following morning'? Mr. HINES. It would be a normal investigative proced ure to respond to the place of employment of a person who committed sui- cide. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. But somebody had to tell them. Do you know who? Ms. BRAUN. I spoke to Captain Hume. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. What time did you speak with Captain Hume? Ms. BRAUN. I spoke to him at around 6:30 in the morning when he came into work. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. You told him that he ought to respond to the White House that morning? Ms. BRAUN. I briefed him on what the situation was, what the scene was like what Investigator Rolla and I had do and on what request had been made, what information we had found out and what still needed to be done. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Do you know that, according to the testimony of Captain Hume, he did not recall that you told him anything about making a request to lock the office? Ms. BRAUN. No, I don't know that. 169 Mr. BEN-VENISTE. OK. Now, they responded, Hume and Markland, to the White House at 8:30 in the morning. They were escorted by Secret Service agents to the West Wing. They sat and waited. What time was your briefing? Mr. HINES. Our briefing was around 10 a.m. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Do you recall exactly what time it was, because there are differing recollections about what time? Is it reflected in any report? Mr. HINES. No, it's not. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Might it have broken up as late as 11:30? Mr. HINES. It could have been between 11 and 11:30. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. OK. Mr. Nussbaum was with you? Mr. HINES. Yes, he was. Mr. BEN-VE NISTE. So he couldn't be answering any questions or providing any assistance to Detective Markland and Captain Hume at that point; correct? Mr. HINES. For clarity, are we talking about July 21, 1993? Mr. BEN-VENISTE. July 21, 1993, Mr. HINES. That's correct. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Captain Hume and Detective Markland are sitting off in the West Wing hoping to get started doing what they hoped to do while you were briefing Mr. Nussbaum in another part of the building? Mr. HINES. That's correct. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. You have learned since that they got upset because they were sitting out in the hallway cooling their heels when they thought they ought to be doing something? Mr. HINES. Let me explain that I do not recollect that Captain Hume and Detective Markland were sitting in the West Wing at 8:30 in the morning on the morning of July 21, 1993. 1 met Detective Markland and Captain Hume as I was leaving the White House in the old West Executive Avenue parking lot, and I briefed them that we had just talked to some staff people and told them the protocol and what we would be expecting to do. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. You don't recall whether they told you what time they had arrived at the West Wing that morning? Mr. HINES. No, I don't recall. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. OK. But, Sergeant Braun, you recall telling Captain Hume at 6:30 in the morning that he ought to respond to the White House? Ms. BRAUN. I told him, yes, what we had done and what I thought still needed to be done. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. So you wouldn't argue with the notion that during the time that you were briefing Mr. Nussbaum, and, indeed, even prior to that, Detective Markland and Captain Hume had thought that some arrangement had been made for them to talk to Mr. Nussbaum that same morning at that same time? Mr. HINES. No, I would not. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Just a mix-up? Mr. HINES. Yes, sir. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Honest mistake? Mr. HINES. Yes. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Finally-I see that my time is 170 The CHAIRMAN. Counsel, why don't you conclude this. I think that's the way we want to do it. I intend to give that flexibility to both sides. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. I think I've pretty well covered where I want to go. Thank you. The CHAIRMAN. You don't wish to conclude? Mr. BEN-VENISTE. I think we're at a good point. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Shelby, OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR RICHARD C. SHELBY Senator SHELBY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Major Hines, I believe-without trying to go over all the testimony and be redundant here-you were present at the briefing that was held by the Park Police at the White House the day after Mr. Foster's death; is that correct?