Advanced Search
Woodchucks
Master 2138, Tape 1 MS Female Woodchuck (Marmota monax) near her den. One of her young leaves the den and stands near her. The young woodchuck eats grass. The mother woodchuck walks through the grass. Two more young woodchucks poke their heads out of the den. A third woodchuck pops out of the den.
August 4, 1994 - Part 13
(00:45:17) Senator BOXER. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. Before I start, can I ask you a procedural question which I hope won't take away from my 7 minutes and that is we are waiting for a tran-script to come up. I understand that Ms. Hanson has been deposed on that remaining question that I asked about, and others had other questions, as I understand it. The CHAIRMAN. Right. Senator BOXER, And my understanding, around 1 a.m. we'll have that transcript, Is that the understanding of Counsel?soon. The CHAIRMAN Our hope is we'll have it sometime quite soon. They're working as quickly as they can to transcribe it. Senator BOXER. I think it's very important that we have that be- fore we adjourn this his morning. The CHAIRMAN That's why were making every human effort to get it. 507 Senator BOXER. Thank you very much for everyone's cooperation on that point, Mr. Nussbaum, I want to start off, you don't work at the White House anymore. You're back to normal life. Mr. NUSSBAUM. That's correct. Senator BOXER. And I underscore that. But I think some of the experiences that you had and some of the problems and some of the good things that happened while you were there are important for us to go over. I think the way you handled the Ludwig matter, to me, was the model of how all of these things should have been handled. You didn't call in so many people to deal with an issue. There was a contact that was made. You found it improper. Mr. Klein quickly got the answer, and that was the end of that. And unfortunately, I feel on these other matters, again, that type of model was not followed. That's an opinion here. Now, I want to talk about the recusal matter as well. I think there's a lot riding on this issue. And I don't think it's just about Mr. Altman or you. I think it's about the White House, and therefore, I think it's very important that I tell you what I think and that you respond to itAt least, it's important to me Mr, NUSSBAUM. I'd like to hear what you think. Senator BOXER [continuing]. And hopefully to the people who sent me here. I believe that Roger Altman bringing the issue up with you was not right for him to do. I think it puts you in a very difficult position. At the same time, I feel that when it was brought up, and clearly you were surprised by it, you stated that you were surprised by it, you should have taken a deep breath, in my opinion, and gotten right to your bottom line. Now, you've told us told your bottom line-as a matter of fact, Maggie Williams told us your bottom line that she clearly remembers. It's up to Roger. Mr. NUSSBAUM. That's right. Senator BOXER. That was your bottom line. Mr. NUSSBAUM. It was. while Senator BOXER. But in the meantime, it took you a little while to get to your bottom line, and I think that's where some of the problems come in. Now, when Mr. McLarty was as asked, he said in a very straightforward way from everything we can gather, Roger, it's your decision. Now that you have have shared with us and I think Senator Bryan has expanded on it, expounded on, your view I understand why it was Very difficult , if not impossible , for you to go straight to your bottom line. You thought that Mr, Altman or, as I gather, anyone who had asked to be recused who didn't have to be recused because of legal reasons, you think that person is acting in an unprincipled manner. You said, and I'm quoting from you, you thought "it was unprincipled of Roger." I'm just trying to tell you how I feel about that. I think that is a very harsh and unfair judgment of another human being because what is important, really, is how the person feels in their gut. And no one, even a brilliant lawyer like you, and I agree that are such, has the right, it seems to me, to tell someone, really, or question how they feel in their gut. So I think we need to have respect for that issue, even thought I you're right. You bring out some important points about the practical difficulties of this. But 508 listen, this is not a perfect world. And what it comes down to human beings and the way they think and the way they feel and what moves them in their soul and in their gut.
Circus (list on can)
Unknown
Elephants
Circus - list on can
Unknown (can't open can)
List on can
Misc. animals
Lion stalking
Lions (color)
Elephants in woods
Lion only - color
Black lion - growling (B/W) and snarling
Circus (color)
Tiger
Travel Etiquette - Hotel
Travel Etiquette MS woman takes clothes from unseen person at door, puts them in closet -- looks like a hotel. (film runs backwards, by deliberate effect) MS woman in nightgown and man in shirt and tie (and pants) sitting on edge of bed, looking intently at telephone). They back up, put clothes on, and back out the door. (2 takes) (normal action) Another man and woman come in the door, accompanied by bellhop, whom the man gives a tip. CU passport, stamped 1951, pulls away to show man and woman standing in front of sign which suggests France (but the whole thing suggests a studio) MS man in tie talking emphatically on telephone (his exaggerated features suggest he's trying a foreign language), pulls receiver away from ear in seeming disbelief. MS man tips bellhop (several takes)
August 4, 1994 - Part 13
(00:50:09) So I think that was wrong. Now, having said all that, I want to bring up the diary. The diary, in my view, is being held up by, many here as the gospel. I have said from day one I believe the diary is an exaggeration, and I believe-and I think it was interesting when the Chairman opened up that if there was intense pressure, it was inside Mr. Altman. The intense pressure wasn't brought by the people in the room. As far as I can tell, we're grownups. Mr. Altman is a grownup. He's been around the block a few times, as my mother would say. She knew the story. He had been in politics. This is not a child, a public servant who is struggling. So I don't believe that you could intimidate him and I don't believe that you did. I don't think that you brought intense pressure , and I think it is very important that I say that because I don't want the American people to believe that the White House brought intense pressure. Maggie Williams said-when was that, today, Mr. Chairman? The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Senator BOXER. Or yesterday. Maggie Williams said many hours ago Senator BRYAN. Fifteen hours ago. Senator BOXER. Fifteen hours ago when she expressed to Roger Altman, I don't understand why you have to do that. You're not taking the case anyway. You looked at her and rather critically said, and I'm paraphrasing, Maggie, if that's what you call her Mr. NUSSBAUM. I call her Maggie. Senator BOXER. It's up to Roger And Mr. Ickes, who couldn't remember exactly what he said, other people remember him saying, well, Roger if you're going to do it, do it sooner rather than later. Now, I think it's important to ask you one more time because you now know how I feel. I don't think there is a point in arguing it. We just see it differently. Mr. NUSSBAUM. Correct, Senator. Senator BOXER. SO we'll respect each other for that. But I think it's important that you please-this is very important for this White House-tell me if you think the Steiner diary is an exag geration when he says the White House brought intense pressure on Roger Altman on the issue of recusal? Mr. NUSSBAUM. I think the Steiner diary is an exaggeration when it says that we brought intense pressure on Roger Altman. Mr. Steiner was not present at the meeting, I was present at the meeting. I know what happened and we did not bring intense pressure on Roger Altman. Senator BOXER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman- The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Senator Moseley-Braun Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm sitting here listening to all this, and I've got to tell you I was reminded of nothing so much as the Famous Japanese film Rashaman. I wrote down Kurasawa as the director and I know some movie buffs will probably write in and tell me who it really was, but if You re- 509 member that film, it was a situation in which the same set of activities were perceived differently by the different actors, the different people who were involved. And I think that's what we've run up against here, the difference in perceptions. You saw an employee who had received legal advice that it was not required that he step away from his job, and you insisted that he not back away from it. Mr. NUSSBAUM. I asked him to reconsider whether he really shouldn't step away. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. That's even better. Mr. Altman, on the other hand, based on his testimony, felt duty bound to continue with his work, albeit as a one man band. Frankly, I think that the confluence of his two jobs, the way the two jobs came together, should have been, but was not, obvious to him, to you and to the Counsel at Treasury, but it wasn't. I think what you're hearing from the Committee today is that this Committee sees an employee with regard to Roger Altman's role. An employee with a potentially-with two potentially conflicting jobs who was so personally associated with the Presidency, in the public mind and ours, that there was no way that he could have avoided the appearance of impropriety or unfairness or partisanship on behalf of a case that in- volved the President personally. I mean, I think that's the Rashaman that we have here, and I think it is those irreconcilable differences in perception that this issue is joined. The sadness here, of course, and there have been some harsh words and I don't want to sound like I'm piling on, but I, with my colleagues, concur in their judgment about the recusal decision, the sadness here is that reputations for integrity and legal acumen are hung in the balance when you're talking in a Senate hearing on national television. But is it not fair to say, Mr. Nussbaum, that you gave the best advice that you could under the circumstances as you saw them at the time?
Autos Are Blessed At St. Christopher's In Colorful Rites
Shaky dull in contrast and imagery - DOS BALDWIN, N.Y. The vehicles of more than 5,000 motorists and cyclists are blessed in a quaint religious ceremony at St. Christopher's Shrine Church, as priests, at the curbside, re-enact the ancient rites of of travelers. Altar boys walking down church steps, file past camera, CU St. Christopher statue. Priest blessing cars and children riding bikes with holy water.
Fred Snite, Jr. Sees Rases By Periscope From New Trailer
Shaky dull in contrast and imagery - DOS Fred Snite, Jr., plucky youth who has lived in a respirator since stricken with Infantile Paralysis, watches the horses go by at Arlington Park from his new Periscope Trailer. Car pulling trailer down road, then pulls into park area. MCU Mirror being maneuvered on top of trailer, interior of trailer with nurses and mirror being moved in order for Fred to see horse race. Horses running on track. Horses run past open trailer alongside track.
Air Raids Take Heavy Toll
Shaky dull in contrast and imagery - DOS Amid scenes of horror and of terror, Japanese bombers continue their relentless destruction of life and property. Flames sweep the inland metropolis and hinder valiant rescue efforts throughout the devastated area. Destruction, rescue efforts, stacks of coffins, woman crying next to dead man, wooden lid being placed on coffin, women crying.
Howard Hughes Gets Big Welcome In The Mid-West
Shaky dull in contrast and imagery - DOS Howard Hughes plane lands and a large crowd has gathered at the airport to give a warm welcome to Howard. Howard's plane the Intrepid "Round The World" pilot is widely acclaimed and gets a big Chicago welcome starting with a ticker tape parade. The big parade goes down the streets of Chicago right up to Chicago's City Hall.
Hometown Welcome's Howard
Shaky dull in contrast and imagery - DOS The millionaire sportsman aviator, Howard Hughes, is royally welcomed by his 'home town'. They closed down Hughes Tool Company in order to welcome their founder's return to Huston for the day. Hughes Tool Company building. CU of one of the department heads shutting the gates of the company with a sign attached to the gate reading, "Closed Today". CU of the plane landing and Howard Hughes amongst crowd.
August 4, 1994 - Part 13
(00:55:45) Mr. NUSSBAUM. That's exactly what I try to do. I try to give the best advice and judgments, legal judgment and other judgments, that I can give under the circumstances at the time. I try to do my best. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Now that you've had a chance to see and hear the other views, the other perceptions, would you change that view now? Mr. NUSSBAUM. You're not going to like this answer, perhaps. Senator MOSELEY-BRAuN. That's OK Mr. NUSSBAUM. But I've thought about it a lot. I've had occasion, having left the Government, taking a mini-sabbatical, to think about this. I respect the other views. I respect your view, Senator Boxer's view, Senator Kerry's view, the Chairman's view, Lloyd Cutler's view, Lloyd Bentsen's view. I don't agree. I don't agree. I really still maintain my view that if you're not legally or ethically required to recuse yourself, and that includes appearances, then you do your job. You do your duty. Now, that's my position. As a result of that position, I am now back in New York rather than in Washington, but that's my position. Senator MOSELEY-BRAuN. I have no further questions. Thank you, Mr. Nussbaum. Senator DODD. Mr. Chairman? 510 The CHAIRMAN. Senator Murray. Senator MURRAY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have listen carefully to my colleagues talk about this issue of recusal because I think it raises a lot of And I can't help but agree with my colleague, Senator Kerry. my Sometimes, you've got to look past legal and ethical issues and see public perception and public opinion because we live with that' every day, But I find myself sitting here thinking what does that do to us in the future if we factor public perception into every deci- sion? I think one of the reasons we find ourselves sitting here for 5 or 6 solid days, going through questions, is because we had a man who essentially held two jobs, one in Treasury and one in the RTC. He was there because the White House sent a name over to the Senate, and this Committee didn't deal with him. We never got anybody in place. Trying to find somebody to do that job has been extremely difficult. If we had confirmed a name, any name, Stanley Tate or anybody sent over by the President to head up the RTC and, I think we would ask whoever that person is: Are you too close to Bill Clinton' to deal with the Madison Guaranty issue? And I have to ask, is there any Presidential nominee we could put in place who would not have to recuse himself on this as head of the RTC? Mr. NUSSBAUM. This raises a profound difference I have with so many of you in this room. Just because the President appoints somebody to a position and that person is confirmed by the Senate doesn't mean he can't act with a matter affecting the President or the President's family. In the Silverado case, a George Bush appointee confirmed by the Senate acted with respect to Neil Bush. Congressman Leach, in his letter to Roger Altman on February 3rd when he told him to seriously consider recusing himself, mentioned that fact, recognized that Presidential appointees are not, ipso facto, by virtue of that position, prevented from acting with respect to matters affecting the President or the President's family. Roger Altman was not, because he was a Presidential appointee, was not disqualified from acting in this matter. The fact that he was a friend of the President didn't disqualify him from acting in this matter. We have ethics rules that deal with these issues here and I'm not arguing with anybody in particular now, we're sort of overriding them because of some greater public relations consideration, political considerations, public perception considerations, whatever these names people are using. I understand how important those things are politically, and I understand how those things have political effects on people's lives but nonetheless, I don't believe they should override the fundamental principle if a person is not legally or ethically required to recuse himself. And because you're a Presidential appointee doesn't legally or ethically require you to recuse yourself Senator MURRAY. I want to ask my friend, Senator Kerry, because, as he pointed out, if we set a legal standard and an ethics standard and also a public opinion standard Senator KERRY. Perception.