August 4, 1994 - Part 13
August 4, 1994 - Part 13
(00:55:45) Mr. NUSSBAUM. That's exactly what I try to do. I try to give the best advice and judgments, legal judgment and other judgments, that I can give under the circumstances at the time. I try to do my best. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Now that you've had a chance to see and hear the other views, the other perceptions, would you change that view now? Mr. NUSSBAUM. You're not going to like this answer, perhaps. Senator MOSELEY-BRAuN. That's OK Mr. NUSSBAUM. But I've thought about it a lot. I've had occasion, having left the Government, taking a mini-sabbatical, to think about this. I respect the other views. I respect your view, Senator Boxer's view, Senator Kerry's view, the Chairman's view, Lloyd Cutler's view, Lloyd Bentsen's view. I don't agree. I don't agree. I really still maintain my view that if you're not legally or ethically required to recuse yourself, and that includes appearances, then you do your job. You do your duty. Now, that's my position. As a result of that position, I am now back in New York rather than in Washington, but that's my position. Senator MOSELEY-BRAuN. I have no further questions. Thank you, Mr. Nussbaum. Senator DODD. Mr. Chairman? 510 The CHAIRMAN. Senator Murray. Senator MURRAY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have listen carefully to my colleagues talk about this issue of recusal because I think it raises a lot of And I can't help but agree with my colleague, Senator Kerry. my Sometimes, you've got to look past legal and ethical issues and see public perception and public opinion because we live with that' every day, But I find myself sitting here thinking what does that do to us in the future if we factor public perception into every deci- sion? I think one of the reasons we find ourselves sitting here for 5 or 6 solid days, going through questions, is because we had a man who essentially held two jobs, one in Treasury and one in the RTC. He was there because the White House sent a name over to the Senate, and this Committee didn't deal with him. We never got anybody in place. Trying to find somebody to do that job has been extremely difficult. If we had confirmed a name, any name, Stanley Tate or anybody sent over by the President to head up the RTC and, I think we would ask whoever that person is: Are you too close to Bill Clinton' to deal with the Madison Guaranty issue? And I have to ask, is there any Presidential nominee we could put in place who would not have to recuse himself on this as head of the RTC? Mr. NUSSBAUM. This raises a profound difference I have with so many of you in this room. Just because the President appoints somebody to a position and that person is confirmed by the Senate doesn't mean he can't act with a matter affecting the President or the President's family. In the Silverado case, a George Bush appointee confirmed by the Senate acted with respect to Neil Bush. Congressman Leach, in his letter to Roger Altman on February 3rd when he told him to seriously consider recusing himself, mentioned that fact, recognized that Presidential appointees are not, ipso facto, by virtue of that position, prevented from acting with respect to matters affecting the President or the President's family. Roger Altman was not, because he was a Presidential appointee, was not disqualified from acting in this matter. The fact that he was a friend of the President didn't disqualify him from acting in this matter. We have ethics rules that deal with these issues here and I'm not arguing with anybody in particular now, we're sort of overriding them because of some greater public relations consideration, political considerations, public perception considerations, whatever these names people are using. I understand how important those things are politically, and I understand how those things have political effects on people's lives but nonetheless, I don't believe they should override the fundamental principle if a person is not legally or ethically required to recuse himself. And because you're a Presidential appointee doesn't legally or ethically require you to recuse yourself Senator MURRAY. I want to ask my friend, Senator Kerry, because, as he pointed out, if we set a legal standard and an ethics standard and also a public opinion standard Senator KERRY. Perception.