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July 19, 1995 - Part 1
(10:45:36) Mr. BEN-VENISTE. In fact, that was done the next day. Did you know that? Mr. HUBBELL. I don't know that. I really don't. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. But, in any event, as far as you were concerned, if the office was locked, that would have taken care of the matter? Mr. HUBBELL. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. Again, in the interest of making some kind of sense, when Members or counsel have a line of questioning that they are close to completing, I would hope that we would give deference so that could take place. That has been the case this morning and throughout the hearings. We ran several minutes over, and I intend to even that out. So, Mr. Ben-Veniste, please continue. Mr. BEN-VENISTE, Simply to bring closure to the issue of locked versus sealed, some of the questions have been put to you in terms, of sealing the office. I'm not sure exactly what that means, and perhaps others will shed light on their definition of that term, but as far as you were concerned, if somehow the office was locked, that would have been satisfactory; correct? Mr. HUBBELL. Yes, I would have preferred to have somebody there to log if people went in or out. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Finally, the next day when you had your con-, versation with Mr. Nussbaum, it became clear to you that Mr.' Nussbaum or someone else had looked in the office to see whether there was a suicide note left by Mr. Foster; is that correct? Mr. HUBBELL. That's correct. Mr, BEN-VENISTE. Did you find that to have been a reasonable and appropriate thing to do? Mr. HUBBELL, Yes. I think everybody was searching for a note, and I think it would be somebody of the stature of White House' Counsel to open the door, walk in and see if there's a note. I think' that is appropriate. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Thank you very much, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Ben-Veniste. Let me, at this point, point out that yesterday Senator Sarbanes and I and indeed the entire Committee agreed that we would request from Judge Starr on behalf of all the Members of the Com- mittee, reiterate our request for the testimony and notes of Officer O'Neill and Mrs. Williams, Maggie Williams as well as any poly- 95 graph tests that the Independent Counsel might have, We'll release a copy of that request and the letter, the initial letter, which was sent by the Committee or by counsel to the Committee on July 11th. So we have asked, and we just say on behalf of all of the Members of the Special Committee, we reiterate the request that we made on the I 11th. I'd just like to note that and we have undertaken that. Can you put on the clock? Mr. Hubbell, I'd like to take this opportunity, and I know that you are not familiar with all the people who did enter the office and the manner in which the review was taken, certainly not by your own knowledge, and maybe you've gleaned some of this from some of the questions that have been asked of you, some of the stories that have appeared in the press, and you certainly can't make a judgment on the basis of hearsay or what you've heard, but let me ask you this. Should a person without security clearance have been allowed to search Mr. Foster's office? Mr. HUBBELL. Search his office? The CHAIRMAN. In other words, go through his office, go through his documents. If you had a person who did not have security clearance, would that be appropriate? Again, let's remove it from Mr. Foster's office. Given the situation where confidential materials are stored, questions of national security, et cetera, would it be, in your judgment as a former Member of the Justice Department, would you say that is proper?
July 19, 1995 - Part 1
(10:20:45) Probably the hardest thing for me is I visited with him on Monday and he said how much better he was feeling, and that he was going to try to get away that next weekend, that he missed getting away from Washington. He had forgotten how tired and depressing Washington was, and I reported that to the Chief of Staff that day. That's the last conversation I had with Vince. Senator KERRY. Why did you report that to the Chief of Staff? Was there evident concern about him at that point? Mr. HUBBELL. I think we were all concerned. Vince had lost weight, had seemed to be depressed. The Chief of Staff was aware that Vince was upset with the internal review and report of the Travel Office. He was concerned and he believed other people had 87 not taken the blame, specifically the FBI. So Mack had a conversation with me just to find out what was troubling Vince and we actually scheduled a meeting that Monday to talk about it to see what we could do to help our mutual friend. Unfortunately, Senator, I told Mack that I thought Vince was doing better. Senator KERRY. Just a final set of questions, and then I'll turn my time over to Mr. Ben-Veniste With resDect to this investigative process-you've been a lawyer for how many years? Mr. HUBBELL. I've been a lawyer for over 20 years. Senator KERRY. You've represented clients in litigation; correct? Mr. HUBBELL. That's correct. Senator KERRY. Can you imagine any circumstances--or even based on your brief experience at the Justice Department, can you imagine any circumstance in which police of one jurisdiction or another would be allowed to roam willy- nilly through an office of, let's say, the CIA? Mr. HUBBELL. No, Senator. Senator KERRY. Through an office at the Pentagon? Mr. HUBBELL. No, Senator. Senator KERRY. Through the Senate Security Office? Mr. HUBBELL. I don't know how you run your security off-ice, but I don't believe so, Senator. Senator KERRY. Certainly the White House Counsel's Office is ail office through which sensitive documents flow, is it not? Mr. HUBBELL. That is certainly correct. Senator KERRY. Not to mention given the fact that the off-ice is the Counsel of the President. There is indeed a lawyer-client privilege between the President and the Counsel, is there not? Mr. HUBBELL. I believe so, yes. Senator KERRY. Is there not a long record, which Republican Presidents have probably asserted more than Democrats, of executive privilege? Mr. HUBBELL. I'm familiar with the executive privilege because we defended a lot at the Justice Department. Senator KERRY. Is there anything unusual whatsoever about a Counsel in the White House being concerned about a procedure for the review of files that might contain sensitive information and which, on the face of it, looking at the potential of a suicide, have nothing to do with an investigative process? Mr. HUBBELL. I would be surprised if there wasn't a procedure that had to be worked out before anybody could look at Vince's files. Senator KERRY. I yield my time to Mr. Ben-Veniste. The CHAIRMAN. You're going to be down to about 12 seconds. Senator KERRY. He can do a lot with that. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. I can wait. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Grams. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR ROD GRAMS Senator GRAMS. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Hubbell, I'd like to go back to the first few hours following Your discovery of information that Vince Foster had died, your first trip to the home of Vince Foster and some of the conversations about your concerns immediately about scaling the office-I think 88 this comes from your legal background-and your concerns right away that there might be some information in that off-ice that could be of concern, your conversations with your friend Marsha Scott, and also with your wife, and your conversations with Mack McLarty and also with others saying that you had real concern and asked questions or directives, should the office be sealed; is that correct? Mr. HUBBELL. I don't remember saying it, but other people certainly do, that I said to be sure to lock the office or words to that effect. Senator GRAMS. Again, as you have testified, there was so much on your mind that you woke up in the middle of the night and one thing you thought of was has the office been sealed. So you had that on your mind, even in the middle of the night? Mr. HUBBELL. I did, and I made a phone call the next morning about it. Senator GRAMS, That was to Mr, Bill Burton; is that correct? Mr. HUBBELL. That is correct. Senator GRAMS. In your conversation the next morning in connection with the sealing of the office, what did Mr. Burton tell you when you asked him of your concern? Mr. HUBBELL. He told me Mack had directed the office be locked.
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