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July 25, 1995 - Part 5
(15:15:25) Mr. WATKINS. No, Senator. senator DODD. I thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank you. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Faircloth. senator FAIRCLOTH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Watkins, earlier you told us that you did not know whether Ms. Thomasson had a security clearance as of July 20, 1993. But in your deposition you stated, "whether she had a security clearance, I don't believe she did." You also said that you knew generally that she had worked for Dan Lasater. Mr. Watkins, what I'm asking you is, did you believe that Ms. Thomasson was not getting a security clearance because of her 10 years' association with Mr. Lasater who is a convicted drug dealer? Mr. WATKINS. Senator, I believe my testimony this morning was that I did not have confidence whether Ms. Thomasson had a security clearance or not at that time. Absolutely not. The only reason for her lack of a security clearance was the processing, Senator FAIRCLOTH. You don't think her association for 10 years with a man who was a convicted drug dealer may have raised any suspicion with the FBI? Mr. WATKINS. I do not. Senator FAIRCLOTH, Have you dealt with the FBI very much? Mr. WATKINS. I also went through an extensive security clearance process myself, Senator. Senator FAIRCLOTH. According to Business Week, Hillary Clinton invested $2,000 in a cellular telephone business and turned a profit rather quickly of $46,000. We now know Vince Foster was working on the tax returns of the Clintons, at the time of his death. Was Mr. Foster working on any item relating to Arkansas Cellular and Hillary Clinton's $46,000 profit? Senator SARBANES. Mr. Chairman, this once again is clearly outside the scope of what's in the resolution. Senator FAIRCLOTH. It is within the scope. Senator SARBANES. It certainly is not. The CHAIRMAN. I'm going to let Mr. Watkins answer it. I think the question is whether or not he was aware of any tax work that Mr. Foster would have been doing with respect to that particular transaction. He can answer yes or no and that will be it. Senator FAIRCLOTH. The relevance, Mr. Chairman, is that it could explain why Watkins ordered Patsy Thomasson to go to Vince 307 Foster's office that night. It may have been to remove documents relating to the deal. senator SARBANES. Most anything would explain that, Senator. It's not within the scope to look within Arkansas Cellular. The CHAIRMAN. Just for the purpose of ascertaining whether Mr. Watkins had any knowledge or not, as it relates to whether there may have been documents there, I'm going to allow it, but just for that purpose. Mr. Watkins, did you have any knowledge of that? Mr. WATKINS. I'm confused as to what the question is. The CHAIRMAN. Whether there was a question with respect to taxes on that particular transaction? Mr. WATKINS. No. The CHAIRMAN. You had no knowledge of that? Mr. WATKINS. No, that transaction was completed in 1987. The CHAIRMAN. So the chances are that there would be no tax treatment you know of that would have been open in 1992? Mr. WATKINS. That's correct. The CHAIRMAN. All right. That's all. Senator FAIRCLOTH. It was completed in 1987, so it would not have been. That's the answer I was trying to get. OK. Patsy Thomasson delivered to you at the Foster home a copy of a press statement on Mr. Foster's death; the night of the suicide, she delivered a press 8release to you at the house; is that right?
52 Hurt In Train Crash
52 Hurt In Train Crash Fifty-two commuters were hurt and 200 were shaken up as a long island passenger train crashed into the rear of a freight. MS of the train laying on its side with sparks and smoke. MS looking at a twisted mass of metal. The only way you can distinguish it was any kind of train is by its wheels. You see just a few people milling around in the background. MS of the train halfway derailed. CU S of one of the trains cars laying on its side. Once again you see onlookers if not surviving passengers assessing the damage of the train. MS of the surviving passengers being directed to board another train so they can continue their journey.
Women Divers Excel At AAU Senior Meet
Women Divers Excel At AAU Senior Meet The nation's top women divers put on a championship show off the high platform and the one-meter board. Pat McCormick sweeps the field in all classes. By today standards of diving these ladies are doing an exceptional job. You can tell by their body form in the dive and the degreee of the splash as they enter the water. The smaller the splash, the better and cleaner the dive.
Korea: United Nations Forces
Korea: United Nations Forces Reinforcements continue to pour into Korea as united nations forces halt the red advance on Russian. GI's screen infiltrating north Koreans and search them for weapons. General Mac Arthur visits Formosa for a discussion with General Issimo Chiang on the defense of the Vital Island Bastion. Back home in this country, the United Nations security council. Formosa General Macarthur getting off a military plane with other high brass officers. They are picked up by military driver in a car. Asian dignitaries getting out of a car. MS of General Issimo Chiang, General Macarthur and other dignitaries. Road lined with South Korean soldiers 3-deep. MS of soldiers loading a bazooka and bombing the hill side of Korea. US soldiers with North Korean POW's, one seems to be wounded. Aerial shot of US Plane firing on North Koreans. Shots of US soldiers talking and smiling. Military men marching their colors next to a battleship. United States United Nations Member Addresses the Council: "What member of this Security Council is assisting in the security council, the invaders, the Soviet (audio cuts out) Who has the influence and the power to call of the invading Northern Korean Army? The Soviet Union..."
Sugar Ray Outpoints
Sugar Ray Outpoints Sugar Ray Robinson, in the last defense of his Welterweight Ttle, completely outclasses Charley Fuser, taking thirteen out of the fifteen rounds, in a bout that was staged for the Runyon Cancer Fund. Among the celebrities on hand are Jim farley, Walter Winchell and Gene Tunney.
July 25, 1995 - Part 5
(15:10:51)(tape #10124 begins) Ms. MATHEWS. Yes, I stopped looking because of the sensitivity, We put the bag away after we found out about the Vincent Foster part, that there wasn't one in his office. Senator MURRAY. Thank you. I wanted to clarify that. Mr. Watkins, it was my understanding you described the general scene of the Foster family home as one of chaos; is that correct? Mr. WATKINS. It was, it was one of great confusion, yes, Senator, Senator MURRAY. It's not surprising in that kind of a situation. Mr. WATKINS. No. Senator MURRAY. Was it your perception that Mrs. Foster was very anxious to find a note explaining what her husband's state of mind was? Mr. WATKINS. Mrs. Foster was interested in getting an explanation of why, and a note, we thought, might have done that. Senator MURRAY. Were other people expressing that same feeling, that a note may explain the unexplainable? Mr. WATKINS. Yes, there was some general discussion about a note. Senator MURRAY. Would you have supported efforts to get to the bottom of the reasons for Mr. Foster's suicide? Mr. WATKINS. I'm sorry? Senator MURRAY. Were you looking for a way to get to the bottom of Mr. Foster's suicide? Mr. WATKINS. Yes. Senator MURRAY. You too were looking for Mr. WATKINS. Yes, my personal question to myself was why, why did Vince do this. Senator MURRAY. Did you have any reason to impede an investigation into his suicide? Mr. WATKINS. Absolutely none. Senator MURRAY. Did you have any reason to stop police officers from searching for a note? Mr. WATKINS. Absolutely none. Senator MURRAY. Wouldn't you say that the opposite is the case, that you would have been all relieved to find a note at that point? Mr. WATKINS. Yes. Senator MURRAY. Thank you. One other, thing. When you spoke with Patsy Thomasson, did you ever discuss files in Vince's office? Mr. WATKINS. I did not. Senator MURRAY. Did you know what was in his files in his office, by any chance? Mr. WATKINS. No, I had no idea. Senator MURRAY. None to your knowledge. Mr. WATKINS. No. Senator MURRAY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll yield back my time. Senator SARBANES. Senator Dodd. Senator DODD. Just very briefly, Mr. Chairman, because I know we want to move on, I think, to the next panel of witnesses. Let 305 me thank all three of you for your testimony here today, and I would just say to all three of you that we've obviously heard a lot of characterizations and of how these events or actions were carried out. Some have talked about it as late night searches and rummaging around, uncontrolled rummaging and so forth, and to hide materials and the like. The heart of the question, I guess, for all of us here, is obviously was there any obstruction? Were there people trying to hide or conceal the materials or destroy materials that would otherwise be relevant to this Committee? (15:13:47)(tape #10123 ends) So I am not going to go into any more excruciating detail of minute by minute here. I think we've explored that pretty thoroughly here today and with your depositions, but I have asked our previous witnesses, those who are pertinent to this, the question I'm going to ask each and every one of you, and I'll ask you to respond to this. Obviously you are all sworn witnesses, and you took the oath when you came in here this morning. Let me start with you, Mr. Gearan, if I can, with the four basic questions that I'm going to ask of every single person who comes before this Committee who were involved or potentially involved with this issue that is the subject of this set of hearings. Now, my colleagues have already raised some of them, but I want to tighten them right down here if I can. I want to know on or after July 20, 1993, which is the date of Vincent Foster's suicide, did anyone ask you or instruct you to destroy any documents from Vincent Foster's office? Mr. GEARAN. No, Senator. Senator DODD. On or after July 20, 1993, did you destroy, yourself, any documents from Vincent Foster's office? Mr. GEARAN. No, Senator. Senator DODD. On or after July 20, 1993, did anyone ask you or instruct you to conceal from law enforcement officials any documents from Vincent Foster's office'? Mr. GEARAN. No, Senator. Senator DODD. Did anyone at any time ask you or instruct you to take any action to impede, obstruct, or otherwise interfere with law enforcement's investigation into Vincent Foster's suicide? Mr. GEARAN, No, Senator, Senator DODD. Ms. Mathews, I'm going to ask you the same set of four questions. On or after July 20, 1993, Vincent Foster's death, did anyone ask you or instruct you to destroy any documents from Vincent Foster's office? MS. MATHEWS. No, sir. Senator DODD. Did you destroy any documents from Vincent Foster's office? MS. MATHEWS. No, sir. Senator DODD. Did anyone ask you or instruct you to conceal from law enforcement officials any documents from Vincent Foster's office? MS. MATHEWS. No, sir. Senator DODD. Did anyone at any time ask you or instruct you to impede, obstruct, or otherwise interfere with law enforcement's investigation of Vincent Foster's suicide? MS. MATHEWS. No, sir. 306 Senator DODD. Finally, Mr. Watkins, the very same questions. Did anyone ask you or instruct you to destroy any documents from Vincent Foster's office? Mr. WATKINS. No, Senator. Senator DODD. Did you destroy any documents from Vincent Foster's office? Mr. WATKINS. No, Senator. Senator DODD. Did anyone ask you or instruct you to conceal from law enforcement officials any documents from Vincent Fos. ter's office? Mr. WATKINS. No, Senator. Senator DODD. Last, at any time did anyone ask you or instruct you to take any action to impede, obstruct, or interfere with law enforcement's investigation of the suicide of Vincent Foster?
Jalopies Race
Jumpy, blurry, dull in contrast and images Jalopies Race Hot rods get really hot on a dirt track and some of the ensuing crashes are really spectacular. The lowly hot-rod comes into its own. The much-misunderstood jalopy proves its worth during speed trials. Watching these cars racing around the track I would venture to guess on MPH to be maybe 75 - 90 (if that) As you watch these cars go around the track, you can see how unstable they are because of being top heavy. One car as its in a turn looses it and goes over landing on its side. The track is not even banked good. This is so prehistoric for car racing it must of been fun to drive those cars at the speeds they were averaging.
Biblical History: Mt. Sinai Treasure
Biblical History: Mt. Sinai Treasure Mount Sinai, cradle of biblical history, reveals basic documents of the Old Testament. At St. Catharine's Monastery, experts from the US Microfilm priceless manuscripts of religious history, to preserve them on film for the future. Mt. Sinai. Overhead shot of town. Mt. Sinai POV at the bottom to top of Mt. Sinai. MCU cross. MLS of religious men going into the church. MS of religious man praying, coffin, artifacts. MCU of religious painting. MS religious man and scholars reading through papers. Photographer taking Micro-Film of The Old Testament. More MCU of St Catharine's Monastery and Mt. Siani.
July 25, 1995 - Part 5
(15:20:17) Mr. WATKINS. I believe she did, yes. Senator FAIRCLOTH. You believe? You don't remember whether she did or not? I believe you'd remember that, wouldn't you? Mr. WATKINS. It is my recollection that she did deliver to me a press statement from the White House Communications Office. Senator FAIRCLOTH. Now, this is important. Did she deliver anything else to you, any other document that night other than a press release? Mr. WATKINS. No, sir. Senator FAIRCLOTH. That's all? Mr. WATKINS. That's all. Senator FAIRCLOTH. All right. I thank you. The CHAIRMAN. In the time remaining I'm going to just-Mr. Watkins, I understand it was a very difficult, confusing time, and I understand you arrived at the house, Vincent Foster's house-terrible calamity, you knew Mrs. Foster, you knew Vince, you knew the people there, Even the officers weren't quite certain as to the time that they arrived, in the area maybe of between 10 p.m. and 10:30. There comes a time, apparently at 10:34, when you notify Patsy Thomasson of Vince's death. The pager showed 10:34. When you testified to this, you said the only reason was to ask Patsy to look for a note, was to look for a motive. But you said when you initially called her you just wanted to let her know, inform her of Vince's death, and I believe that you did. That would be natural. But you then said let me know where you are which would lead some people to believe that not only did you want to bring this to her attention, but that you also wanted to see if she was in the position--and I think reasonably so--to go to the White House and to go to his office to look for a note, because you said everybody was troubled about what was the motive. 308 Now, is that a fair statement? Mr. WATKINS. Yes, sir, that's a fair statement. Yes, sir. -my other questions, The CHAIRMAN. I am not going to ask you but, you see, some Members become concerned when you say-you seem to be saying I wanted to let her know arid then there was a period of time and I heard people talking about--- Mr. WATKINS. No, that's what 1-1 misunderstood what you said then. My recollection is that I beeped Patsy to notify her of Vince's death. When she--when we talked-in the time between beeping her and talking to her there was general discussion about a note. I told her, advised her of Vince's death when I did talk to her and, at that time, asked her to go to his office and look for a note. The CHAIRMAN. OK. All right. Mr. WATKINS. That's what I The CHAIRMAN. You have to understand, between the time you sent out the beep and by the time she returned the page, you had your conversation. She took a cab and went from Georgetown to the White House all within a period of 15 minutes. So I'd have to suggest to you it does not sound as if there was a long period of time after the initial communication. It almost sounds like you reached out to her to tell her he died and to get on over to check and see if there's a note. I don't find anything wrong with that, Again, it's a hectic night, but that's the way the fact pattern appears at least to me. Yes, Senator Dodd. Senator DODD. I was struck by that too, the time sequence. Clear this up for me because I think last night going over the transcripts, the way I understood it, Ms. Thomasson was leaving the restaurant when the beep came in, she wasn't in the middle of a meal. I was struck by her necessarily urgently running down. But as I went over that-and someone can correct me if I'm wrong-but as I am trying to recollect the reading last evening, she was actually on the way out of the restaurant when the message came, and made the call, told her friends what had happened and went, So while there may have been a sense of urgency even if she was in the middle of a meal, I was struck by the fact that she had completed the meal and was preparing to leave at the time The CHAIRMAN. I believe that to be the case. Senator DODD. I was more satisfied myself, having raised the same question of the time sequence.
Navy Gridders Work Out Football
Navy Gridders Work Out Football A large squad turns out for practice under new coach Eddie Erdelatz and Capt. Tom Bakke. With only a month to go, the football hopefuls give all they've got in rigorous training session. Opening shot, football players on their backs doing bicycle leg movements. MS of players tackling a hanging dummy. MCU of the coach and one of his players posing with a goat. Players tackling dummies.
Stunt Flier Cracks Up
Stunt Flier Cracks Up Tommy Walker cracks up his biplane before tense throng at Monmouth County Airport-but he does it on purpose and walks away unscathed. Walker lives dangerously and likes it. Opening shot of Tommy getting into his bi-plane. MS of bi-plane, air born. MS of air plane fans in stands. MCU of bi-plane flying into a wooden structure and cracks up the plane. MS of fans clapping for the pilot. CU Tommy Walker, pilot getting out of his bi-plane and being congratulated with a hand shake from an admirer and fan.
The Brave Bull
The Brave Bull Jose Maria Martorell displays his Matador skill before gala throng at San Sebastian, but el Toro trips him up and gores him severely before the action is over. A breath-taking picture. Matadors are parading into the bull ring, three abreast and four deep. MS of the crowd that's packed in the stadium to cheer on their favorite matador. MS of the bull with three spears stuck into the muscle on his back. MS of Jose Maria Martorell and the bull. CUs of three lovely ladies looking worried. MCU of the Matador getting head bunted by the bull. He falls to the ground covering his head. CUs of Jose with the cheering crowd behind him.
Huskies Claw Kansas State Wildcats 33-7
Huskies Claw Kansas State Wildcats 33-7 Roland Kirby and Don Heinrich prove the combination that takes the measure of the Kansas State Gridders in an action-packed game. MS Quarter has the ball, throws it. Wide receiver catches the ball, other players chase and knock him down. MLS Quarter hands off the football, the receiver just runs a little and gets knocked down. MLS Quarterback throws the ball, wide receiver catches it, runs and scores a touchdown.
July 25, 1995 - Part 5
(15:25:16) The CHAIRMAN. I think it's unfortunate and, of course, hindsight is very useful. People say why didn't you do X, Y, or Z. You don't think of all these things at the particular time, what the ramification is, that you'd be here 2 years from now. But certainly I think reasonable people would suggest that you might have told some- body whether it's Secret Service or the Park Police, what you had done. Did you tell anybody there, any of your colleagues, that you had asked Patsy Thomasson to look for this note? Mr. WATKINS. I told Mr. McLarty. The CHAIRMAN. OK. We have no further questions. Senator SARBANES. Are we all finished here? The CHAIRMAN. Does anybody else have any further questions Of this witness? I want to thank the whole panel. 309 Senator SARBANES, As this panel departs I do want to make one point, in all fairness, particularly to Ms. Mathews and also to underscore the point I made earlier in the day about these leaks that are occurring and the danger connected with the leaks. One of the problems of the leaks is that the press gets inaccurate information. I mentioned earlier the Margolis memo that had the top of it apparently not present so it wasn't clear that these were simply moot court questions, and they were written as though they represented Mr. Margolis' own thinking. This morning there was a story in the press which in effect said Sylvia Mathews said in a deposition that she was aware that some of the documents in the bag were from the Foster office and then went ahead and had that bag burned. Her testimony here has been very clear that that was not the case. She, in fact, just to the contrary, had the initiative to save the trash and, with respect to the burn bag, operated on the premise that there was no material in the burn bag out of Foster's office when it was then went ahead and processed. Now, she was caught in a difficult situation. In fact, in this very same story, she declined comment yesterday pending the hearing which is, of course, what witnesses ought to do. But they're placed in an extremely difficult position obviously as a consequence of these leaks which in many instances are putting out erroneous information. Then, of course, in this instance she has to suffer with this until she gets here today and has the opportunity to really put her testimony out on the public record. So I think we need to make a renewed effort to try to see what we can do about these leaks and let the story unfold here in front of the Committee. We've got plenty of Members and counsel that will question. We want to find out what happened. We want to lay it all out. But I would hope we could do it here in the public light in an orderly way, working together as we have tried to do. So I hope we can renew our efforts in this regard. The CHAIRMAN. I assure the Ranking Member that I share this concern, and I say to the press-not that I believe it's going to do much good-that you really take this information-portions of depositions, for example-at your own peril because often it is erroneous or out of context, and that you can do great damage to the person. I'm glad, Senator Sarbanes, that you took the time particularly to mention Sylvia Mathews. No one has told a clearer story and demonstrated greater concern than she has with regard to taking appropriate action and responded, given her position in the hierarchy, in a more exemplary fashion. If others had demonstrated her care and concern we wouldn't be here today. No doubt in my mind. So, wait for it to fold out because sometimes you just-we're going to have a person there who can explain the circumstances of his or her arrival or their particular actions in such a way that you'd say, they did exactly what should have been done in that circumstance. I will say that her testimony was very convincing as it relates to that, not only convincing but clarifying, et cetera, and I think it indicated, even to the Committee, things that we heretofore had not known because she put it all together. 310 We do a great disservice if we just take some bit, some little piece, it may be titillating but, in the long run, it's going to lead us astray. I want to thank all of the witnesses and we'll proceed to Our next witness. Thank you.
Louis Fails In Title
Louis Fails In Title An ageing Joe Louis yields to youth as Ezzard Charles denies him his bid for a return to the heavyweight title. The battered face of Ezzard Charles smiling. MS Ezzard walking toward the camera after the fight with Joe Louis. MCU Ezzard sitting on the locker room gurney smiling, he just won. MCU Joe Louis who just lost his title. His face is battered as well.
Germany Boxes Too! And Pieter Miller Wins Title
Germany Boxes Too! And Pieter Miller Wins Title Stretz and Mueller mix it for the middleweight title of Germany and Mueller, after a spectacular bout has Stretz stretched on the deck. MLS Two boxers in an outside ring. Many people in the back ground MLS Two boxers hitting each other. MLS One gets in a luck punch and knocks the other one down. MLS The crowd is going bonkers cheering. MLS The referee is counting to ten and it looks likes a knock out. CU The two boxers with some kind of wreath around their shoulders smiling. Peter Mueller its das vinner. Audio is in German
The Wild West Takes Over In New York
The Wild West Takes Over In New York No holds are barred when the horses, Brahma bulls and cow pokes mix it in Madison square garden. As usual the mere man takes the falls-lots of them. MLS Like all Rodeos this one starts off with a parade and every one is on a horse and they all have American Flags. MLS Cowboy gets bucked off a horse. MS More cowboys and more getting bucked off horses. MS Cowboy get bucked off Brahma Bull, bull looks very happy strutting around MS Rodeo clown in a tire barrel tormenting the bull, the bull head butts the barrel with the clown inside. CU Lady in the audience with her mouth wide open.
Korea: UN Forces Drive Reds Back To 38th Parallel
Korea: UN Forces Drive Reds Back To 38th Parallel On all fronts, united nations forces pursue routed reds as they strive to reach the safety of the thirty-eighth parallel. Pockets of resistance are mopped up and thousands of prisoners are taken. ML Bomb blowing up in the hills of Korea. Narrator says they had just left that area in the Korean hills where the bomb is exploding, United Nations Observers. CU Soldier in conversation with his superiors. MCU Plane taking off from tarmac, Australian air force. MCU Aerial shot of planes flying over hills. MLS Plane dropping bombs. CU Soldiers sitting on hill. OH Plane firing a rockets and there blowing up. MCU More aerial shots from the planes in combat. MLS to CU Tank passing by. MS Soldiers on streets fighting CU Soldier with a Mohawk haircut (pretty radical considering it's 1950) he's waving and smiling and celebrating a victory. CU Soldiers sitting, and catching a well deserved cat nap from the war. MCU Wounded soldiers, one is smoking a cigarette and he looks like he's in pain. MCU General MacArthur adressing very important men and he shakes the hand of a South Korean President - President Syngman Rhee. MCU Soldiers in platoons leaving. This is action packed footage of the Korean War.
July 25, 1995 - Part 5
(15:30:29) The CHAIRMAN. Ms. Thomasson, would you stand. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you are about 0 give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Ms. THOMASSON. I do. SWORN TESTIMONY OF PATSY L. THOMASSON FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF ADMINISTRATION AND SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT The CHAIRMAN. Ms. Thomasson, I don't know if you have a statement that you'd like to give to the Committee, or any remarks. We'd be happy to take any. Ms. THOMASSON. Thank you, sir. My name is Patsy Thomasson. I was born in Arkansas. I grew up in a small town called Rison. I went to a small college, State supported, in Arkansas. My first job after college was to work for former Congressman Wilbur Mills, who's now deceased. After a 2-year tenure on the Congressman's staff, I left to go to graduate school at the University of Missouri in Columbia. After graduation in 1972, 1 returned to the staff of the Congressman in the district office in Little Rock. In 1977, then-Governor, now-Senator David Pryor appointed me to the Arkansas Highway Commission, Highway and Transportation Commission in the State of Arkansas for a 10-year term. During the Clinton/Gore campaign and just before I joined the White House, I was Executive Director of the Democratic Party of Arkansas. I moved to Washington and joined the Clinton Administration on March 1, 1993. 1 was Director of the Office of Administration and Special Assistant to the President. In May 1993, 1 became a Special Assistant to the President for Management and Administration, and my office was moved into the West Wing of the White House. On July 20, 1993, 1 had dinner with a friend from Arkansas, her children, her sister and her sister's family. We ate at a restaurant at Washington Harbor. As we left the restaurant after dinner, I received a page from the White House operator telling me to page David Watkins with my location, I later learned from the pager records that that page happened at 10:34 p.m. on the night of July 20, 1993. 1 went into the restaurant and called from a pay phone. The White House operator asked me to give her a phone number so that Mr. Watkins could call me. I told her that I was at a pay phone and that I would prefer to hold while she got Mr. Watkins on the phone for me. After a wait of several minutes, the operator connected Mr. Wat kins and me. He told me at that time that Vince Foster had killed himself. I was in shock. I was in disbelief. I could not believe that my friend and colleague had killed himself. I asked Mr. Watkins at the time to repeat that message to me. I immediately asked David how I could help. He asked me to go to Vince's office to See 311 if Vince left a suicide note. He told me to page him after I looked and let him know what I found. When I walked out of the restaurant, my friends were waiting for me. When my friend looked at me, she immediately asked me what happened. I said Vince Foster killed himself. She also knew Vince and his family from Little Rock. We were both in tears. We hugged each other. We consoled. It was a terrible moment, I had never personally known anyone before who had committed suicide. It was just totally unthinkable, inconceivable to me. I told my friends I had to go to the White House to see if he left a note. My friend said you don't need to be by yourself, let me go with you. We then looked for a cab, got a cab, went up through Georgetown, M Street, to Pennsylvania Avenue and to the White House. I told my friend she couldn't go with me because it was too much trouble to clear her through the security process at the White House, They dropped me off at the northwest staff gate at the White House. I got out of the cab. She got out for a minute with me. We consoled each other. I went into the White House, into my office on the lower level of the West Wing, unsecured my office, left my things, my purse in my office and went up to the first floor. I saw a number of people that I knew. I stopped to talk, to console and to be consoled. I saw Bernie Nussbaum. I told him that David Watkins had asked me to look in Vince's office for a suicide note. I asked him to go with me. We went to the White House Counsel's Office on the second floor. As we went into the reception area, the cleaning lady was coming out of Vince's office. Bernie and I went in.
July 25, 1995 - Part 5
(15:35:48) As we entered, I looked on the surfaces of the furniture to see if I could see a note. There was nothing immediately apparent. My thought was if there was a note, Vince would have placed it so it would be easily found, but that it would not have been placed where it would not have been discovered fairly readily. I sat at Vince's desk, opened the drawers to the desk to see if there was anything that looked like a suicide note. I looked in the top of his briefcase, which was sitting on the floor. I didn't see anything. During this timeframe, Bernie was grieving. He was walking back and forth in the office. He left the office for a few minutes. Shortly thereafter, I recall Maggie Williams came in and sat down opposite me. She was crying and visibly grieving. We sat together, me at Vince's desk, Maggie across from me, crying,, and asking each other why. As I recall, Maggie then left the office and Bernie came back. I believe that Bernie told me at the time we probably don't need to be here anymore, let's leave. I said OK. We both left the office emptyhanded. I went back to my office on the ground floor and paged David Watkins to report. I later learned that the pager records show that the time of the page to Mr. Watkins was at 11:36 p.m. Ile responded. I reported that I had found no note. I asked if there was anything else that I could do to help. He told me that the Press Office was preparing a statement and the family wanted a copy of it. He asked if I would get that to the house. I delivered the press release to the home. I was at Vince's house for a few minutes, just long enough to express my condolences and then I went home for the evening. 312 Thank you, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. Mr. Chertoff. Mr. CHERTOFF. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Thomasson, you are currently still working at the White House? Ms. THOMASSON. Yes, sir, I am. Mr. CHERTOFF. What's your current position? Ms. THOMASSON. I am a Deputy Assistant to the President for Presidential Personnel. Mr. CHERTOFF. When did you move over from your position as of 1993 into your current position? Ms. THOMASSON. In May 1995. Mr. CHERTOFF. Let me direct your attention back to July 20, 1993. You were at a restaurant called the Sequoia? Ms. THOMASSON. That's correct. Mr. CHERTOFF. That's in Georgetown? Ms. THOMASSON. Yes, sir. Mr. CHERTOFF. How far is that from the Foster residence? Ms. THOMASSON. I have no idea. Mr. CHERTOFF. Have you ever been to the Foster residence? Ms. THOMASSON. Only one time, sir. Mr. CHERTOFF, You did know Vincent Foster, though? Ms. THOMASSON. I knew Vincent Foster, but I was only at his residence the night that he killed himself, and that was after I had been to the White House. Mr. CHERTOFF. Do you remember where it is? Ms. THOMASSON. I couldn't tell you, sir. Mr. CHERTOFF, You do know it's in Georgetown, though? Ms, THOMASSON. I think it's somewhere in Georgetown. Mr. CHERTOFF. Now, you were in the process of leaving the restaurant when you got paged? Ms. THOMASSON. That's correct, sir. Mr. CHERTOFF. I take it you don't have an independent recollection of exactly what time you got paged; right? Ms. THOMASSON. I have no independent recollection of that, sir. Mr. CHERTOFF. But will you accept as accurate a record we received from the White House indicating that was at 10:34 p.m.? Ms. THOMASSON. I have no better recollection than what the White House records would show, sir. Mr. CHERTOFF. That is consistent with your general sense of things- right? Ms. THOMASSON. Yes, sir. Mr. CHERTOFF. Now, you get the page, and you go tell your friends you have to go respond; correct? Ms. THOMASSON. Correct, Mr. CHERTOFF. YOU leave them outside the restaurant while you go back in? Ms. THOMASSON. Correct. Mr. CHERTOFF. You go to a pay phone? Ms. THOMASSON. Correct. Mr. CHERTOFF. You make a call back to the White House? Ms. THOMASSON. Correct. 313 Mr. CHERTOFF. The White House does not put you through immediately; correct? Ms. THOMASSON. That's correct. Mr. CHERTOFF. They tell you that there's a message for you and Mr. Watkins wants your location and a number; correct? Ms. THOMASSON. That's correct. Mr. CHERTOFF. You indicate, rather than leave, that you want to stay on; right? MS. THOMASSON. That's correct. Mr. CHERTOFF. They then place the call, and it gets through to Mr. Watkins; correct? Ms. THOMASSON. I don't know what they do on their end, sir. I know I was eventually connected with Mr. Watkins. Mr. CHERTOFF. You're holding on the pay phone? Ms. THOMASSON. That's correct. Mr. CHERTOFF. He gets on the line and he breaks the news to you? Ms. THOMASSON. Yes, sir. Mr. CHERTOFF. At that point, you asked him if you could, in fact, come over to the Foster's residence; right? Ms. THOMASSON. I asked if there was anything that I could do to help. Mr. CHERTOFF. You said can I come where you are? Ms. THOMASSON. I said is there anything I can do to help? Do I need to be where you are? What do I need to do? Mr. CHERTOFF. His immediate response was I'd like you to go to the White House and look for a note? Ms. THOMASSON. That's correct. Mr. CHERTOFF. What did he tell you about what you should do if you found a note? Ms. THOMASSON. I was to call him, sir, Mr. CHERTOFF. You were going to page him and let him know you found the note? Ms. THOMASSON. That's correct. Mr. CHERTOFF. Did he tell you not to touch it? Ms. THOMASSON. No, sir. Mr. CHERTOFF. Did he tell you to contact anybody at the White House when you arrived, before you went into Mr. Foster's office? Ms. THOMASSON. No, sir. Mr. CHERTOFF. Did he tell you to get in touch with Mr. Nussbaum? Ms. THOMASSON. No, sir. Mr. CHERTOFF, Did he tell you to get in touch with Secret Service? Ms. THOMASSON. No, sir. Mr. CHERTOFF. Did you have any discussion with him about how you would gain entry into Mr. Foster's office? Ms. THOMASSON. No, sir. Mr. CHERTOFF. You understood Mr. Foster's office was part of the suite occupied by the White House Counsel; correct? Ms. THOMASSON, That's correct.
July 25, 1995 - Part 5
(15:40:50) Mr. CHERTOFF. From your job duties at that time, were you aware that that suite was typically locked at the end of the day? 314 Ms. THOMASSON. I was aware that most offices in the White House would be locked at the end of the day. Mr. CHERTOFF. That was certainly true of your office? Ms. THOMASSON. Yes, sir, Mr. CHERTOFF. Did your office have an alarm? Ms. THOMASSON. Yes, sir. Mr. CHERTOFF. Did you know that night on your way to the White House whether the White House Counsel's suite had an alarm? Ms. THOMASSON. I did not know. Mr. CHERTOFF. How long was your conversation with Mr. Watkins on the telephone, approximately? Ms. THOMASSON. I couldn't tell you. It was a very short conversation. Mr. CHERTOFF. You hang up the phone; right? Ms. THOMASSON. Correct, Mr. CHERTOFF. You go outside to your friends? Ms. THOMASSON. Correct. Mr. CHERTOFF. You tell them the news? Ms. THOMASSON. Yes, sir. Mr. CHERTOFF. YOU spend a moment or two commiserating? Ms. THOMASSON. Yes, sir. Mr. CHERTOFF. YOU say you need to go to the White House? Ms. THOMASSON. Yes, sir. Mr. CHERTOFF. They agree to come with you in a cab? Ms. THOMASSON. They insist they come with me in a cab, yes. Mr. CHERTOFF. You hail a cab? Ms. THOMASSON. Yes. Mr. CHERTOFF. Do you remember whether you hailed a cab outside the restaurant or whether you walked up to M Street? Ms. THOMASSON. I don't really recall whether there was a cab down on K Street that we were able to hail or whether we had to walk to M Street. I just simply don't remember that. Mr. CHERTOFF. When you got a cab, you then drove to the White House? Ms. THOMASSON. Yes, sir. Mr. CHERTOFF. When you got out at the White House, your friends got out with you? Ms. THOMASSON. One of my friends got out with me, yes. Mr. CHERTOFF. You spent a moment or two talking and commiserating with your friend? Ms. THOMASSON. That's correct. Mr, CHERTOFF. At that point, you entered the White House? Ms. THOMASSON. Correct. Mr. CHERTOFF. Now, just to assist you with this, I'll tell you that we have a Secret Service record that indicates your entry that night was at 10:49 and 16 seconds, which is about 15 minutes after the page. Now, at that point, you go first to your office; right? Ms. THOMASSON. Yes, sir. Mr. CHERTOFF. Do you notify the Secret Service at the desk downstairs on the ground floor that you're intending to go into Mr. Foster's office? Ms. THOMASSON. No, sir. 315 Mr. CHERTOFF. Do you tell anybody while you're on the way up to your office that you're intending to go to Mr. Foster's office? Ms. THOMASSON. I don't recall talking to anybody before-on my way to my office. Mr. CHERTOFF. When you got to your office and put your things down, your intention was to make your way to Mr. Foster's office; right? Ms. THOMASSON. That's correct. Mr. CHERTOFF, You did not know who else was in the White House at that point? Ms. THOMASSON. Had no idea. Mr. CHERTOFF. You didn't know who was on the first floor? Ms. THOMASSON. No, sir. Mr. CHERTOFF. You didn't know if the White House Counsel's suite would be open? Ms. THOMASSON. No, sir. Mr. CHERTOFF. How were you going to get into the suite? Ms. THOMASSON. I don't know. Never crossed my mind, sir. Mr. CHERTOFF, Never thought about it? Ms. THOMASSON. No. Mr. CHERTOFF. Didn't mention it to any of the Secret Service agents? Ms. THOMASSON. No. Mr. CHERTOFF. You had no prearrangement to meet anybody there? Ms. THOMASSON. No. Mr. CHERTOFF. You went up to the first floor; correct? Ms. THOMASSON. Correct. Mr. CHERTOFF. It was by happenstance that you ran into Bernie Nussbaum? Ms. THOMASSON. That's correct, Mr. CHERTOFF. You are quite positive that you and Mr. Nussbaum entered the office together? Ms. THOMASSON. As I recall it, Mr. Chertoff, Mr. Nussbaum and went up to the office together. Mr. CHERTOFF. You recall cleaning people being there? Ms. THOMASSON. Cleaning people were coming out of Mr. Foster's office as we were going into Mr. Foster's office. Mr. CHERTOFF. I want to ask you whether it is consistent with your recollection that you were in Mr. Foster's office for a period of time before Mr. Nussbaum first arrived? Ms. THOMASSON. I don't recall being in Mr. Foster's office before Mr. Nussbaum arrived. I recall going into the Counsel's Office with Mr. Nussbaum. Mr. CHERTOFF. You have that as a memory? Ms. THOMASSON. That's what I recall. Mr. CHERTOFF. Now, once you get in there, where do you go first? You're in Mr. Foster's office, where do you go first? Ms. THOMASSON. I go and sit behind Vince's desk. Mr. CHERTOFF. Where does Mr. Nussbaum go? Ms. THOMASSON. He is walking around the office. He's pacing back and forth. Mr. Nussbaum is visibly grieving. He is visibly upset, running his hands through his hair. His best friend, his partner, so to speak, in a legal sense--it seems to me that lawyers 316 really, when they work together, they think about themselves being partners, and they worked together side by side every day. Mr. Nussbaum was visibly grieving. He was very upset that night, Mr. CHERTOFF. Did you have any discussion with him regarding where you might likely find a note? Ms. THOMASSON. I do not recall having a discussion with him about where we might find a note. Mr. CHERTOFF. You begin by looking at the top of the desk? Ms. THOMASSON, All the surfaces of the furniture in the office, yes. Mr. CHERTOFF. YOU start opening the drawers? Ms. THOMASSON. Yes, I did. Mr. CHERTOFF. Did you move the papers in the drawers? Ms. THOMASSON. No, sir. Mr. CHERTOFF. Were there any particular drawers you opened? Ms. THOMASSON. I opened the center drawer. I opened the drawers on the right-hand side of his desk. I don't recall whether there were even drawers on the left-hand side of his desk. I opened the drawers-I opened each drawer in his desk to look to see if there was something laying in the top of the drawer. My thought process was if someone left a suicide note, they would leave it where it could be easily found, I didn't go through every individual file in his desk or anything like that. I just looked in the top of the drawers and on the top of the desk to see if there was something there that would be a suicide note. Mr. CHERTOFF. Why did you look in the briefcase?
UN Attacks Slow Expected Red Push
UN Attacks Slow Expected Red Push U.N. Forces under General Ridgeway probe at the Red lines to keep the communist hordes off balance. Air and land bombardments harass enemy lines along the central front. Spotter planes fly over the lines directing artillery fire, and patrols probe weak spots in the lines. Desiring no conquest and hopeful of a cease fire agreement with the Bay Ping government United Nations Forces under Lt. General Matthew Ridgeway back up the no-appeasement policy in Korea. The commanding General of the 8th army sizes up the situation and orders the big gun into action. How ever before the order to fire is given spotter planes take off to locate enemy prostitutions. These scenes show teamwork between the air spotter and the ground bettors. The enemy is located the information is re-laid to gunners who take over. Outnumbered three to one the United Nations Troops hold on and give no quarter until a peaceful plan is forthcoming Establishing shot - Bomb destruction. MCU Hut burning. General Ridgeway and two other top ranking officers speaking. MLS Army Jeeps with big anti-aircraft guns. MCU Spotter planes, one taking off. Aerial shot - Foothills of Korea. MCU Field officers giving direction to the gunner, smoldering ruins.
The President: Compares Stalin With All Other Dictators
The President: Compares Stalin With All Other Dictators President Truman receives an award from The Society Of Business Magazines. In an impromptu speech he echoes the sentiments of every free man concerning dictators. MLS President Truman and the men from The Society Of Business Magazines. President Truman accepts the award MLS President Truman steps up to the microphone and delivers his speech: President Truman address the crowd and press concerning dictators: "We're fighting for freedom, for the right to worship as we please in any church we choose to attend, the right to read what we please and the right to speak what we please and the right to elect public officials of our own choosing and then to give them hell after their elected. Dictators don't believe that and there's no difference between dictators. If you study your history there hasn't been any difference in any police state that ever existed in the history of the world. They're all alike. They're all for the enslavement of the individual for the benefit of the state. We believe that the state exists for the benefit of the individual and that's what we're fighting for. There isn't any difference between Hitler and Mussolini. The talk wins of ancient Rome, kings of Sparta. Charles the first of England and Lewis the fourteenth and Stalin they're all just alike".
Aviation In The News
Aviation In The News A B-36 bomber the first of six returns to Forth Worth, Texas flying non stop completing a historic mission completing a trip to foreign soil the atom bomb carriers were in the air over 30 hours. Taking off at 15 minute intervals from England the world's biggest bombers were engaged in night and day bombing exercises over the ocean on the return flight. On hand to greet the crews is General Irvine commander of Carswell Airbase. MCU B-36 Bomber coming in for a landing. CU Military man with a pointer and a map on the wall. CU B-36 Bomber landing. MCU The B-36 crew walking down the steps of the plane. MCU General Irvine shaking the hands of the B-36 crew.