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Bonnet In The Ring, Sen. Smith To Run For Presidency
Margaret Chase Smith, Republican Senator from Maine, announces that she will enter the New Hampshire primary and seek the nomination for the Presidency. She has run for office 48 times and has had 48 wins so far. Maine This looks like it might be a ladies luncheon. CUS - Margaret Chase Smith standing at the podium, addressing ladies at a luncheon, with some men sprinkled in the audience here and there. Senator Margaret Chase Smith, "As gratifying as are the reasons advanced urging me to run. I find the reasons advanced against my running, to be far more impelling. For I were to run it would be under serve limitations, with respect to lack of money, lack of organization and lack of time because of the requirements to be on the job in Washington, doing my elected duty, instead of abandoning those duties to campaign, plus the very heavy odds against me. So because of these very impelling reasons against my running. I have decided, that I shall."
Royalty Gathers In Japan
Emperor Hirohito of Japan and his Empress play host to the King and Queen of Belgium at a glittering State dinner in the Imperial Banquet Hall. Shades of an era that is passing rapidly. Japan Emperor Hirohito escorts Queen Fabiola of Belgium to her seat at a state dinner for King Baudouin. MS - Everyone seems to be seated at a very long table. MS - Emperor Hirohito standing up addressing the dinner guest. MS - King Baudouin stands up and addresses Emperor Hirohito and the rest of the dinner guest. MS - Everyone is standing now and lifting their wine glasses in a toast. MS - A reception attended by two hundred guest are greeted in the reception line. MS - Camera pans and you see the two Queens from two different countries sitting side by side. Some of the Japanese ladies are wearing their Japanese cultural dress.
There's No Stopping This Buggy
Want to get away from it all??? Here's your transportation! A swamp buggy that is propelled by two buoyant screw devices. The Army is testing it. It goes over any terrain...damp or dry. Mississippi The Mississippi swamp buggy runs over the mud right into the Mississippi River. MS - The swamp buggy cutting through the water, and it is called the Marsh Amphibian. MS - The swamp buggy goes right through the gooey mud with no trouble at all. MS - The Marsh Amphibian is on dry grassy land and it's still moving just like it is on the mud and water. Aerial shot - From grass, to mud and finely to water once again.
Sports: Fishing On The Rocks
Some people head for Florida on winter vacations. Other wind up in St. Anne de la Perade, Quebec...for ice fishing. Some 20,000 on a week-end throng the huts on the river and catch fish until their arms are tired. Canada St. Anne de la Perade, Quebec, lake. The little fishing houses keep the fishermen warm on the frozen lake. MS - Men on the frozen with lumber jack saws, sawing away cutting through the thick ice. The men pull out a huge block or ice with ice thongs. CUS - Two fishing buddies in a fishing cabin baiting their hooks with frozen pork Underwater shot - A Tummy Cod fish. MCUS - Inside a deluxe portable fishing hut, a fisherman (girl) pulls in a fish and seems to be quite proud of it. MS - A fisherman dumps all the Tummy Cod that was caught ringht on to the frozen lake.
August 4, 1994 - Part 2
(10:40:32) Senator D'AMATO. Let me say, if I might, Mr. Chairman, and I do not think we want this to be a back and forth. Number one, we are limited by the scope as it relates to that which was laid down and passed in the Senate Resolution. Second, though, and I think this is fair, we had intended to go into the subject of the handling of the documents, and we would have been looking into the handling of the documents. In fact, recent revelations indicate that they have become even more important, those documents being the Whitewater papers that were found in Mr. Foster's office. What happened? How were they handled? The process. Unfortunately, Mr. Fiske has not completed that phase and has asked to delay our investigation and public hearings on the subject. It was supposed to be part of these hearings. So I think that is what Senator Domenici is tying into. Senator KERRY. I agree with that. I agree with that, but that is the protection of the integrity of the process. Senator D'AMATO. That is right. The CHAIRMAN. Well, I am going to ask that-we have discuss ed this now. Every Member is going to have time to raise, in their pe- riod, if they want to make a comment on it, and I want to finish with the questioning. We have got Members waiting to ask questions that have been waiting a long time. So, Senator Faircloth, I would ask you then to keep the questions within what we can properly cover now, and let's restart your time, here to where it was, and let you finish. 299 Senator FAIRCLOTH. Mr. Chairman, I want to start out by saying, I thank you for the fairness with which you have conducted the meeting, and I respect your judgment in this. But, Senator Kerry, if you are concerned that the public is having questions and the audience about where we are headed and why we are headed there and in what way, you are absolutely right. And we have probably opened up a lot more questions than we have answered, and they are going to expect us to be answering them. Ms. Williams, you testified that you were assigned to be part of a so-called Whitewater response team that was set up in 1993 when the first press stories on Whitewater began to appear. Could you please describe who decided that there should be a Whitewater response team at the White House and what was the function of the team? Ms. WILLIAMS. First of all, Senator, the White House Whitewater response team was set up in January 1994. That is my understanding. That is the first time that I was involved in participating in any such team. Second, it was put together by Mr. McLarty who delegated to Mr. Ickes the responsibility of focusing on a coordinated response to Whitewater press inquiries. Senator FAIRCLOTH. How often did it meet and who were the participants? MS. WILLIAMS. It met for a while every day. At the height of the press inquiries, it met every day. The participants were Mr. Ickes, Ms. Caputo, Press Secretary to Ms. Clinton, Mark Geron, the Director of Communications, Mr. Eggleston, I believe, David Dreyer from the Communications Department, those were initially the Senator FAIRCLOTH. Well, why did you wait until January to put it together when Whitewater was an issue before the Banking Committee back in early November? Ms. WILLIAMS. Well, sir, since I did not put it together, I do not believe that you should direct that question to me, but let me say that my recollection is since we were responding to press inquiries primarily, our participation in such discussions around press inquiries heightened as the press inquiries heightened, so in October and November and December, to the best of my recollection, there were not lots and lots of press inquiries. They were starting. In January, they seemed to be at full speed ahead, I think, so I believe that we started it in response to the press inquiries at that time. Senator FAIRCLOTH. All right. Ms. Williams, why did you ask whether the briefing that Mr. Alt- man provided on the operation of the statute of limitations in the Madison case should be provided to Mr. Kendall, the President's personal lawyer?
Fly Away With Me - New Helicopter
The trouble is -- there's only room for one in this jet turbine helicopter. It is transported to the fly away spot in a 12 foot box trailer and can be assembled and flown in five minutes. Its uses can be enumerated by the dozens. Washington DC A station wagon pulling a trailer. MS - There's a crowd that gathered that is watching the guy in the station wagon open it up. MS - When the trailer is unfolded there is a jet turbine helicopter. MS - The pilot is sitting at the controls of the little helicopter and is going straight up MS - This helicopter cruses at better than 50 mph. MS - The pilot is sipping all over the place and he finely lands the little chopper right on the open trailer.
Never Mind The Weather - Skiing on Artifical Snow
The drought and long Indian Summer don't stop skiiers in Los Angeles who build a 165 foot slide in the Dodger Ball Park and have themselves a ball jumping on artifical snow. Los Angeles, California At the Dodger stadium in Los Angeles they built a 65 feet high sky jump and they are applying crushed ice that is pretty much like a early spring snot. MCUS - Skiers sitting on the ground strapping on their skis. MLS - One of the first skiers goes down the ski jump. MS - The skiers are skiing down this ski jump with no fear in them.
Sports: Football - Navy 24, Pittsburgh 12
The Pittsburgh Panthers stalk into Annapolis all primed to claw the Navy. But the Midshipmen prove themselves big game hunters. Sparked by Quarterback Roger Staubach they riddle the Pitt Defense and hold the undefeated team to 12 points as the Middies score 24. Annapolis, Maryland Crowded football stadium. MS - Staubach passes the ball and it is caught and carried almost for a touchdown. Navy scores. MS - Jim Campbell passes the ball and it is intercepted by the Navy and makes it to the three yard line. and a touchdown is scored. MS - Midshipmen fire a cannon. MS - Pittsburgh passes the ball scores a touchdown but it's too little too late. Navy wins 24 Pittsburgh 12
Sports: Football - Harvard 17 Dartmouth 13
Harvard takes the measure of undefeated in 15 games until they meet a fighting Crimson team that turns the Dartmouth Green red. Interceptions and fumbles help John Harvard to a 17 to 13 victory. Massachusetts Harvard is having a frustrating first half at Dartmouth. MSOH - Harvard's pass is intercepted by Dartmouth. MS - Darthmout passes the ball, it is caught and ran into the end zone, scoring a touchdown. MS - Harvard hands off the football and the ball is carried to the 35 yard zone. MS - Harvard passes the ball it is caught and ran into the end zone, touchdown! MS - Harvard has the ball once again, runs it into the end zone and winning the game Harvard 17, Dartmouth 13.
August 4, 1994 - Part 2
(10:45:13) Ms. WILLIAMS. Well, Senator, first of all, let me say that I do not actually recall saying that, but it would not be inconsistent for me to say to anyone that there are matters that belong appropriately so I believe to the personal Counsel of the Clinton's. 300 I was trying to make sure, in my own mind, making a distinction between what rightfully belonged with the personal lawyer and what was an institutional matter. So I believed if we were talking about waiving of the statute that was not my business, that was the business of Mr. Kendall' Senator FAIRCLOTH. In your everyday course of duties as Chief of Staff to the First Lady, did you have contacts with Mr. Kendall, the Clinton's personal lawyer? Ms. WILLIAMS. Not in my everyday work. There would be sometimes, however, when Mrs. Clinton could not remember a fact about Whitewater that she would say, either call Mr. Kendall or I will call Mr. Kendall and try and get an an- swer. Senator FAIRCLOTH. What was the reaction of the other White House officials at the meeting, to your suggestion that President Clinton's personal lawyer be briefed on the operation of the statute of limitations in the Madison case? What did they think when you said that? Ms. WILLIAMS. Once again, sir, it is difficult for me to talk about their reactions since I do not even remember saying that. What I have tried to do is to volunteer to you that it would not be inconsistent of me to have said that. I was not paying any attention to any reaction because I do not recall myself saying that specifically. Senator FAIRCLOTH. Did you ever have any conversation with Mr. Kendall, the Private Counsel to the President, concerning the possibility of obtaining a briefing by the RTC on the operation of the statute of limitations in the pending Madison case? Ms. WILLIAMS. No, sir, to the best of my recollection, I did not. Senator FAIRCLOTH. That is all, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Senator Bryan. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR BRYAN Senator BRYAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. McLarty, Ms. Williams, it is nice to have you with us this morning. Mr. McLarty, I want to focus attention in my line of questions dealing with the testimony of Mr. Altman on the 24th, before this Committee. I continue to be very, very troubled by that testimony and yesterday we had testimony before this Committee by two gentlemen that I think are extremely able, whose instincts and judgments think were sound, and who I think were highly credible. Mr. Eggleston told us that on the day before the hearing, he was sufficiently concerned about how Mr. Altman's testimony was to be presented that he actually called Ms. Hanson to discuss, you know) the recusal issue there which had been the subject of the meeting on the 2nd of February. Mr. Eggleston further told us that he was assigned to be in attendance at the time of the hearing, and that after Mr. Altman testified in response to a line of questions from Senator Gramm, Senator Bond and Senator Domenici, that he was sufficiently concerned that he left the hearing, as I understood it, placed a cellular 301 call to the White House to in effect say I am concerned about that testimony, I am led to believe that thereafter, either he or others made contact with Mr. Podesta who was then in chain of command. For whatever reason, and this is the question that I want to ask you in a moment, that was not addressed properly, in my judgment, there were a series of letters, as you know, that flowed from, I think, March 2nd to March 3rd to March 11th and there was one other letter. Share with me what the organizational structure was in the White House because you had two fine gentlemen who I think immediately saw the problem, attempted, to the best of their ability, to alert the White House that this needed to be addressed, and I guess, to use a football metaphor, somebody fumbled the ball. Mr. MCLARTY. Senator Bryan, I think your assessment of Mr. Eggleston and Mr. Podesta and others is a correct one. The matter was brought to the White House's attention to Mr. Podesta and I believe Mr. Ickes, who made me aware of it sometime shortly after Mr. Altman's testimony. And my direction was that we should work with Treasury to make certain that Deputy Secretary Altman's testimony was complete, I would say, Senator, that Treasury testimony, Mr. Altman's testimony per se, he and his staff should take the lead in terms of that testimony. Mr. Podesta had worked with the Treasury Department regarding this particular hearing, at the request of Mr. Griffin, who is responsible for our legislative affairs, and me. This hearing was a regularly scheduled hearing, as I understood it, and covered a very wide scope in its meeting. Senator BRYAN. Mr. McLarty, when did you first become aware that there was, quote, "a potential problem," those are my words, I do not think that is the testimony precisely, but that clearly is the import of the testimony by Mr. Eggleston and Mr. Klein, when did you first become aware that there may be a problem with that testimony?
Yesterday's Big Story - A Mitchell bomber had crashed into the side of the Empire State Building at the 79th floor.
July 28, 1945. New York City was shrouded in a smothering blanket of fog when scores of people heard a low-flying plane heading south. Then, an explosion! A Mitchell bomber had crashed into the side of the Empire State Building at the 79th floor. The crew of three and ten other people died as the plane hit with such force that parts of it passed through the building and across the street. From street looking up at building on fire, and from building looking down at street. New York, NY New York City shrouded in a blanket of fog, you can hardly make out the shapes of the buildings. MS - Downtown New York a lot of people and traffic on the street. Camera pans - Empire State Building engulfed in fog. MS - Military men running down the street, fire hoses, traffic blocked off. Camera looks up at the building - There you see smoke coming from one of the top floors. MS - Inside one of the units that the plane went through, smoking from the fire, and a fire hose spewing out water to put out any hidden fires. MS - Firemen inside one of the units with their fire hoses. MS - A man laying on a ledge presumably dead, he was blown out of the building. MS - The fog has cleared up some and you see rescue squads, firemen and policemen as well as pedestrians. CUS - Man who looks unconscious being carried away on a stretcher. MS - Inside of an office burned to a crisp, This made it very hard to identify the remains of the people who were in that office. MS - All kinds of charred stuff, unrecognizable on top of the desk. MS - Fire and medical examiners inside the charred offices and then the camera pans down looking at the street below.
Quick, Fred, The Flit - Beatles in New York
There are rumors that this is Britain's revenge for the Boston Tea Party. You guessed it... the Beatles have arrived in the United States for their first appearance before an idolizing teen-age crowd, with the St. Vitus bounce. They take an airing in Central Park. 3,000 screaming teenagers are on hand to greet the Beatles when they arrive at New York's Kennedy Airport. John, Paul, George, and Ringo wave to the fans as they walk down the stairs from the plane. During their first meeting with American press John and Ringo dance for the camera, as fans outside their hotel hold up signs that say "Elvis is dead, Long Live the Beatles." New York, NY A plane taxing in and then the camera pans to the top of a building where there's over a hundred teenagers, screaming and cheering. The Beatles disembarking from a jet liner, they stop on the planes stairs to wave to their fans. MS - The Beatles all four of them standing on a podium. MS - Teenagers lining the streets, camera zooms on to a sign that reads; Elvis is Dead. Long live the Beatles. Another sign reads (With a picture of the Beatles on it) We Love You - Never Leave Us. CUS - Girls smiling, cheering and yelling. MS - Ringo, John, and Paul in Central Park. MCUS - The press armed with their cameras. Camera looking up - Ringo, John, and Paul with their arms spread out.
Mardi Gras Ushes In Lenten Season
The traditional New Orleans Mardi Gras is bigger and better than ever as parades continue thru day and night. Pretty girls and grotesque floats all add up to fun for one and all... People in garish costumes on floats throw beads at the spectators. New Orleans, Louisiana It's evening time all the lights are on and the floats are starting to come down the street, people on the float are throwing beads to the people on the street. MSLD - It's daytime and the floats still come and more and more people are lining the streets. MCUS - A strange looking dog float. CUS - The crowd and their all holding their arms up begging for the beads. MSLD - A float with a paper machete rocket ship, and people throwing beads.
August 4, 1994 - Part 2
(10:50:52) Mr. McLARTY. It was shortly after Mr. Altman's testimony. I do not recall the specific date, Senator. It was probably a day or two, if not a bit longer. Senator BRYAN. A day or two after the 24th? Mr. McLARTY. That is correct. Senator BRYAN. Now what follow up, if any, did you give, or direction to Mr. Ickes or Mr. Podesta or someone else that you may have detailed to follow up on this? Mr. McLARTY. It was my understanding, even when the matter was brought to me, that Mr. Podesta would be following with Treasury to make an effort to make certain that Mr, Altman's testimony to this Committee was complete, which I certainly endorsed and said that is precisely what we need to do. That was my response when the matter was brought to me. Senator BRYAN. I want to be very clear that I am not suggesting, nor should anybody infer that anybody at the White House was try- to alter that testimony in a way that would be negative to the full disclosure of the truth. 302 What I am trying to get at is clearly we have a problem. Podesta is notified, and I am trying to find out why it was not corrected at a sooner point in time, and you are indicating you found out about it. Did anybody thereafter brief you and say, look, I have taken care of this matter, I have notified Treasury that it needs to be-what was the involvement you had, if any, from that point? Mr. McLARTY. Well, Senator, first, I appreciate your clarification because our efforts were to make certain that that testimony was complete, not to alter it in any way, but to supplement and make certain it was complete, if necessary. Senator BRYAN. I want to say that I believe that to be true, as well. Mr. MCLARTY. I wanted to clarify that point. I think Mr. Podesta and others can speak with more preciseness about what was done. The matter was brought to my attention some days--a couple of days after Mr. Altman's testimony. I believe there was a weekend in between. If I am not mistaken, Mr. Podesta answered a similar question before the House Committee and I think he can respond to you. But when it was brought to my attention, the matter was already underway that Mr. Podesta would follow with Treasury and make certain, to the best of his ability, that Mr. Altman's testimony before this Committee was complete. Senator BRYAN. Did anybody ever report back to you that the mission was accomplished, or give you a follow-on report as to what was done to make sure that your directions were carried out? Mr. McLARTY. I do not recall getting that kind of report, Senator. I may have, but I do not recall it. Senator BRYAN. As the White House is organized, who would have handled that? Mr. Podesta is going to be a witness this afternoon, and I will ask him these questions, Mr. McLarty, but I am trying to get an understanding in terms of the structure of the White House who might have been the one that would have been given that information if you yourself have no recollection of a follow-on. Mr. McLARTY. Again, Senator, testimony before Congress, and of course there is a great deal of that by Cabinet Secretaries and Deputy Secretaries, as you certainly appreciate, is the primary responsibility of the Cabinet agency. Senator BRYAN. Yes. Mr. McLARTY. But the activity would be, our Congressional fairs Office, Mr. Griffin, at this point, would have been the logical contact. Mr. Podesta, because of his Hill experience and generally just a very capable professional was asked to become involved in this particular matter by Mr. Griffin and by me. Senator BRYAN. Did Mr. Podesta report to Mr. Ickes? Was that the chain of command or did Mr. Podesta report to you or somebody else? Mr. McLARTY. Mr. Podesta reported to the Chief of Staff's office as Staff Secretary. When he had special assignments, which from time to time he has undertaken over the past 18 months, and I think discharged them very well, he might report or at least have 303 a very close working relationship with whomever was responsible for a particular activity. In this case, it would have been Mr. Ickes. Senator BRYAN. Mr. Ickes would have been a logical person that he might have reported to? Mr. McLARTY. In this particular case, Senator, let me clarify or add to that, because it was testimony before a Committee, Mr. Grif- fin would have been involved in that from Congressional Affairs. Senator BRYAN. I note my time is up and we have a vote in proc- ess, so I thank the Chair. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Bryan. Would someone like to continue at this point? There is no one here at this side? [No response.] The CHAIRMAN. All right. I am going to proceed then for a minute myself, if no one else wishes to, and then I will adjourn in just a moment. Mr. McLarty, I want to just follow on with Mr. Bryan's line of questioning for a minute. It seems to me that when Mr. Eggleston, who was here monitor- ing that hearing, our hearing, and he was in a trip wire capacity- this is my phrase now-in the sense that he was there listening for something that might occur, and he just did not pick that hearing to come to that day. There were a lot of hearings. He came here, he was at that hearing for a reason.
Royal Romance: Dutch Princess To Wed Prince
Princess Irene of The Netherlands and Prince Carlos Hugo of Spain prove that love conquers all --- including international politics! After days of intrigue and behind-the-thrones maneuvering, the Royal Lovers arrive in The Hague and it is announced that the couple will marry soon. Protestant Princess Irene converted to Catholicism and forfeits her rights to the Dutch throne when she marries Prince Carlos. The Netherlands Princess Irene of the Netherlands with her Prince Charming, Carlos Hugo of Spain. MS - Princess Irene and Carlos Hugo gets out of a car. MS - Princess Irene and Carlos Hugo standing in a reception line shaking hands with the attending guest. MCUS - Princess Irene and Carlos Hugo sit down for a interview from the press. Princess Irene: She said that they were very happy to be able to tell and share their happiness with everybody.
The Westmnster Dog Show - 2,547 Dogs
The Westminster Show, the World Series of Dogdom, sees a surprise finale as the Best in Show goes to a Whippet, " Courtenay Fleetfoot" of Pennyworth. Before he wins, however, he has to down the cream of the crop in all the six major categories. Among those shown are a poodle, pointer, boxer, and basset hound. New York, NY Center ring of the dog show and the dog handlers are concentrating on showing off their dogs. MS - A standard Schnauzer if put back into his crate CUS - Yorkshire Terrier, CUS - Crain Terrier, CUS - English Springer Spaniel, Westhighland Terrier, CUS - Blood Hound, Standard Size Poodle, and the Best In Show is a Whippet.
Magic Carpet Debut: Harem Beauties Make Test Flight
There's a flavor of the mysterious East in Texas as a magic carpet floats through the streets. It's really mounted on an air car, but use your imagination! The harem beauties that test-fly it are real enough. All this takes place at the world premiere of "The Brass Bottle". Huston, Texas A car pulling a float down the street, and on top of the float sets a Genie bottle. MS - All the Texas beauties pushing the float. MS - The marquee of the show reads: World Premiere: Tony Randall, Burl Ives, Barbara Eden - Brass Bottle, Fabulous Fun.
August 4, 1994 - Part 7
(15:15:02)(tape #10092 begins) PBS funding credits (15:15:12) Whitewater coverage title screen (15:15:24) Hearings hosts KEN BODE and NINA TOTENBERG introduce afternoon's hearing from tv studio, they also talk to ELLEN POLLACK of the Wall Street Journal (15:39:52) Hearing begins: The CHAIRMAN. The Committee will come to order. This afternoon, on this panel, we have before us Mr. Harold Ickes who is 353 Deputy Chief of Staff to the President, Mr. George Stephanopoulos who is the Senior Advisor to the President for Policy and Strategy, Mr. John Podesta who is Assistant to the President and Staff Secretary, and Mr. Bruce Lindsey who serves as Assistant to the President and Senior Advisor. Gentlemen, let me ask you now, if you would, please, stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? The WITNESSES. I do. The CHAIRMAN. I understand that all of you have statements and let's just start with the senior-I'm not sure what the rank is here, being respectful, would that be you, Mr. Lindsey or would that be Mr. Ickes? Mr. LINDSEY. I believe Mr. Ickes. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Ickes, why don't you proceed. TESTIMONY OF HAROLD ICKES, ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT AND DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF, WASHINGTON, DC Mr. ICKES. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee, my name is Harold Ickes. I serve as Assistant to the President and Deputy Chief of Staff, I come before you today to inform you, and the American people, about my knowledge of the facts concerning contacts between the White House and Treasury Department officials related to Madison Guaranty Savings & Loan. I want to thank you for this opportunity to address some of the concerns that have been raised about these contacts. I firmly believe my conduct in this matter was legal, ethical and proper. Let me briefly highlight for you the events relating to my involvement in these matters. In doing so, I ask you to remember that my days, like yours, are long and busy; that there were many other matters that I was dealing with at the time; and that it is hard, months later, to separate what I knew at the time the events occurred from what I also learned from press accounts and public discussions of these matters. I joined the White House staff in January of this year. I am primarily responsible for managing the President's Health Care initiative, but for a period of time when I first came to the White House, I was responsible for pulling together a working group to coordinate the White House's response to press inquiries concerning what is generically known as "Whitewater." In late January and early February, as you will recall, Republican Members of Congress, including Members of this Committee, began making an issue about the expiration of the statute of limitations with respect to the Resolution Trust Corporation's inquiry into Madison. On January 11th, eight Republican lawmakers called upon the RTC to enter into tolling agreements with the Clintons and other interested parties, to "allow time for a complete and independent investigation and permit the orderly operation of the legal and judicial processes." On February 1, Senator D'Amato, on the Senate Floor, stated that the "clock was running" on the RTC's Madison inquiry, and urged the RTC, to immediately seek tolling agreements "to stop the 354 clock and assure that there is time for a thorough, impartial investigation of the facts." On that same date, Roger Altman wrote Senator DAmato to assure him that "the RTC is mindful of the impending February 28 statute of limitations with respect to Madi- son," and stated that the RTC would vigorously pursue appropriate remedies including tolling agreements. On this same day, Mr. Altman asked to meet with myself and others in the White House which we did on February 2nd. Thus, this meeting took place in the context of the highly publicized statements on the Senate Floor and elsewhere that I've just described. As I recall, for most of the meeting, Mr. Altman made a presentation about the procedural options generally available to the RTC in cases such as Madison, in view of the statute of limitations deadline the same options that were the subject of the statements on the Floor of the Senate. My impression from what Mr. Altman said was that the statute was likely to expire before a full investigation into the Madison matter could be completed and that this could result in a situation in which the RTC would have three options: One, the RTC could seek a tolling agreement; or 2, failing that, the RTC could file a protective claim to preserve its ability to fully complete its investigation; or finally, the RTC could allow any potential claims to lapse. In my deposition before the Senate Committee Counsel in July of this year I was asked to recount my recollections of the February 2nd meeting. I was twice denied the opportunity by Committee Counsel to review my notes of that meeting before responding to the questions. I stated that I could not recall the words that were spoken at the meeting, but that my impression of what Mr. Altman said-the gist of it-was that "the investigation probably would not be concluded and that a determination could not be made by the RTC's General Counsel as to whether there was a basis for a civil claim until after the expiration of the statute of limitations."
August 4, 1994 - Part 7
(15:45:35) By this, I meant that there probably would not be sufficient time to complete fully the Madison investigation, in order to permit the RTC to make a judgment about whether the merits of the case justified pursuing a civil suit. My understanding was based on the discussion of the three options, as well as the public statements about these issues. As I understood it, the RTC probably would need more time to complete a thorough investigation and an internal review, before making a final determination as to whether there were sufficiently meritorious claims to justify committing agency resources to pursuing a full-blown lawsuit. But I also understood that the RTC could file a protective lawsuit to preserve future claims, if there was not a tolling agreement. It has been suggested, based on my deposition, that I did not believe the RTC would be in a position to file such a protective suit by the February 28th deadline. That is simply not so. To the contrary, I understood that the RTC was in a position to file such 8 protective claim if it did not obtain tolling agreements. This is corroborated by two sources. First, it is corroborated by my notes of the February 2nd meeting, which were not shown to me at my Senate deposition. These notes refer to the three options outlined above, including the option 355 to "commence litigation to preserve claim." I have attached a copy of those notes to this statement, for the record. Second, RTC's General Counsel, Ellen Kulka, testified before this Committee earlier this week that she advised Mr, Altman that the RTC would not have fully completed its investigation by the deadline, but that it would be able to file a protective claim, if necessary, to preserve its options. Ms, Kulka testified that she told Mr. Altman that "we would do what we could to file the complaints we need to file, and amend them later if further discovery after that date made it appropriate." Ms. Kulka said she "clearly told Mr. Altman that we would put ourselves in a position to do the very best we could and that we would be able to file the complaints." Thus, what Ms. Kulka reported to Mr. Altman, just prior to our February 2nd meeting, was consistent with what I took away from that meeting-that while the agency would probably need more time to do a thorough investigation and make a final determination, it would be able to file a protective lawsuit to preserve its rights to proceed. As I stated in my Senate deposition, both the questions I asked and the matters discussed by Mr. Altman were procedural, not substantive in nature. The information communicated by Mr. Altman did not strike me then nor does it strike me now as being secret or confidential, nor did Mr. Altman or his General Counsel, who was present at the meeting, state that this information was confidential. Indeed, I was under the impression that the issues flagged by Mr. Altman on the February 2nd meeting were already a matter of public debate. Moreover, because it was my understanding that the RTC could file a protective suit, I would have had no reason to inform either the President or Mrs. Clinton that there was no need for them to enter into a tolling agreement-and I am confident that I made no such suggestion to either of them. In fact, to my knowledge, the President and Mrs. Clinton were not asked to sign a tolling agreement. I remind you that just 10 days after the February 2nd meeting, the President signed into law a bill extending the statute of limitations until the end of 1995. Once that happened, the deadline for any decision concerning Madison and the procedural options we discussed at the February 2nd meeting were no longer of any relevance, Toward the end of the February 2nd meeting, Mr. Altman also stated that he was considering recusing himself from the Madison matter. I, and others present, inquired as to why he was considering recusal, and to the best of my recollection, he said it was because he was a personal friend of the President's.
August 4, 1994 - Part 7
(15:50:20) I am not an expert on such issues, and I think I expressed my view that this did not appear to me to necessitate his recusal. Others present expressed similar views. But we certainly conveyed to Mr. Altman that the decision was entirely up to him. At the close of the meeting, Mr. Altman indicated that he would further consider the issue and let us know what he had decided. Within a day or two, he informed me that he had decided not to recuse himself. At all times, I viewed the February 2nd meeting as wholly appropriate. Mr. Altman initiated the meeting. There were Counsels 356 present from both the Treasury Department and the White House, who never suggested that there was anything inappropriate or improper about the meeting. The expiration of the statute of limitations with respect to Madison was a matter of public debate. While opinions were expressed on the recusal issue, the bottom line is that the decision was Mr. Altman's to make. Under these circumstances, I believe the meeting comported with all applicable ethical and legal standards. Independent Counsel Robert Fiske, a Republican, has found that no laws were violated by this meeting, and White House Special Counsel Lloyd Cutler, as well as the Office of Government Ethics have confirmed that this meeting violated no ethical standards. Following the events of early February, to the best of my recollec. tion, the next time I had a discussion with Mr. Altman concerning these matters was on February 23rd, the evening before he testified before the Senate Banking Committee. I don't recall the specifics of the conversation but generally, but generally I recall Mr. Altman informing me that he was considering either before or as part of his testimony announcing his recusal from the Madison matter , and he wanted to know if I had any thoughts on that. I believe I asked him whether any circumstances had changed since early February that would cause him to change his prior decision not to recuse. I recall him saying they had not, And I recall telling him that it would be entirely up to him, but if I had any other thoughts, I would get back to him. He asked me to call him later that evening, after he returned from an event outside of his office. Rather than wait, I phoned Josh Steiner a short while after my conversation with Mr. r. Altman. I repeated what I discussed with Mr. Altman and asked Mr. Steiner to convey to Mr. Altman that I had no further thoughts on the subject and that it was entirely up to him whether to announce recusal the next day. During his testimony on the 24th of February, Mr. Altman did not say he was going to recuse himself from the Madison matter. As you may recall, the news accounts the day after Mr. Altman's testimony focused on his statement at the hearing that he had met with White House officials in early February to discuss the statute of limitations with respect to Madison. As a result, the White House was getting a number of press inquiries about the issue of contacts with Mr. Altman, as well as the fact that he had not recused himself, despite congressional demands to do so. And we were attempting to respond to those inquiries. At some point during the afternoon of February 25, George Stephanopoulos informed me that he had heard that Mr. Altman had recused himself from the Madison matter, and that he had done so in the course of a conversation with the editorial page editor of The New York Times, without notifying the White House in advance of his decision. Mr. Stephanopoulos and I called Mr. Altman immediately to confirm if that were true. Mr. Altman confirmed these events, and we expressed surprise that he had chosen to announce his recusal to a newspaper editor. We had simply been', caught off guard, especially since we had been fielding questions, from the press on these issues. 357 I am aware that Mr. Steiner's diary reflects that we indicated to Mr. Altman that the President was "furious" about these events. As far as I know, Mr. Steiner was not a party to that phone call, and I do not recall making any such statement. Moreover, I would not have any basis for making such statement because I had not spoken with the President between the time I learned that Mr. Altman had recused himself and the time when Mr. Stephanopoulos and I called Mr. Altman. In closing, I should also add at some point in time I recall briefly informing the President and Mrs. Clinton in separate conversations of the gist of the discussion at the February 2nd meeting. And that Mr. Altman had shortly thereafter decided not to recuse himself. I speak with the President and the First Lady several times a week about a number of matters, and I cannot recall the specifics about neither nor did these conversations or when they took place. I recall that of them had any particular reaction to the information; they ask me to take any action with respect to the recusal issue.
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