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August 1, 1994 - Part 7
(20:10:55) Senator DoMENici. Do you have any information as to why, on March 1, 1994, at the White House, there was a meeting of one, two, three, four, five, six, seven people, about correcting this record, and you were not there? Ms. HANSON. I haven't any idea. Senator DomENici. I have an understanding that on March 1, 1994, Messrs. Podesta, Lindsey, Nussbaum, lGein, Sloan, Eggleston, and Meyers had a 2-1/2hour meeting. There had been negative press about Mr. Altman's staying at the RTC, and there was concern about Mr. Altman's inaccurate testimony. It goes on to say that, Mr. Podesta was to call Mr. Altman and tell him of the three errors and to correct them, but when Mr. Podesta called Mr. Altman, Mr. Altman did not want Mr. Podesta to give him facts that he didn't already have about the criminal referral. Do you have any information about that? Ms. HANSON. I have no information about that. I understand I have understood, now, in the course of this process, that the White House did have a copy of the transcript, but, as I say, I didn't have a copy. Senator DOMENICI. When you went to the meeting at the White' House on February 2, 1994, the big meeting, did it bother you at all that nobody was there representing the RTC, other than Mr. Altman wearing his two hats; that there was no counsel from the RTC, nobody other than you, as Treasury's Legal Counsel, and together you at all that the meeting was taking place at him? Did it the White House, with about seven personnel of the White House, and the RTC wasn't present? Ms. HANSON. No, sir. In fact, I thought it was appropriate that the RTC General Counsel was not in attendance at that meeting because she was supervising the ongoing civil investigation an had substantive knowledge in terms of what was being done in the investigation. The only purpose of the discussion in the White House was statute of Citations, procedural issues, and Mr. Altman's recusal. I bad counseled him on the recusal and on the statute of limitations discussions. It was a briefing on the law as applied to the Madison matter, a pure application of law to facts, and I was fully able to do that. Senator DOMENICI. Was there not a discussion, at that meeting, about whether or not the RTC bad sufficient facts, and had inves- 147 tigated the case thoroughly enough, to file by the statute of limitations date of February 28, 1994? Ms. HANSON. No, I previously testified that one of the talking points said that it was not clear when the investigation would be completed, but it would be completed by February 28, 1994, which was information that had been given to Congress the prior day. Senator DOMENICI. So, if Mr. Ickes recalls that, at that meeting, it was discussed in a contrary manner-that, in fact, Mr. Altman gave him information, in his opinion, that says the case won't be ready-then, Mr. Ickes is wrong? Ms. HANSON. Mr. Ickes is mistaken. It didn't happen-that discussion didn't happen in my presence. Senator DOMENICI. All right. Did you have any conversations regarding the entire issue of Mr. Altman's recusal, and the related matters that were discussed on February 2, 1994, with any other members of the White House staff who were not in attendance at that meeting? Ms. HANSON. Not to my recollection, no. Senator DOMENICI. Did you get any calls from any other White House people, who were not present at that meeting, about that? Ms. HANSON. Not about the-the subject of the meeting? Senator DOMENICI. Yes. Ms. HANSON. No. Senator DOMENICI. The people there were Mr. Nussbaum, Mr. McLarty, Mr. Ickes, Maggie Williams, and Neal Eggleston. Did you receive any calls from any other White House personnel?
August 1, 1994 - Part 7
(19:55:10) Senator SARBANES. Let me go to this conversation with Nuss- baum. There's a newspaper story today, and we have, in our file a questions and answers- which you apparently prepared to put' yourself through the drill, as I understand it. Let me just read them. This is in reference to the conversation with Nussbaum: Question: Who in Treasury or the RTC knew that you had this conversation? Answer: I don't recall that I told anyone of the conversation. Question: Did you tell Mr. Altman? Answer: No. Question: Did anyone ask you to have this conversation? Answer. No. What are we to make of this practice questions and answers which I've just read to you and which, I understand, were foundcame from your files? Ms. HANSON. Those questions and answers I prepared for myself in the middle of the night on had ' arch 1-2, 1994, as my initial attempt to try to recall the events that had occurred last fall. This was following the call that John Podesta made to Roger Altman, and our locating Senator Bond's questions and transcribing them from the tape. I had not thought about those events for a very long time. It was my first attempt to try to refresh my own recollection. They were prepared for my own use for that purpose of trying to begin the process of refreshing my recollection as to what happened. Over the course of the next several days, as I continued to think about the events that occurred last fall, it became clear to me and I did-that I did have a recollection of speaking with Mr. Altman on this matter. I did not have a recollection of reporting back to him and, in fact, probably the reason that I didn't have the recollection is because there's a memo, I wrote him a memo, and that is the September 30, 1993, memo which was not discoveredit was discovered in my files, but not until we were searching the files to respond to the subpoena after March 4, 1994. Senator SARBANES. Am I to understand that you wrote these questions and answers to, in effect, set out your version of what occurred, and these are all, on the basis of what we have before us, wrong? Is that correct, every one of these answers are wrong? Ms. HANsON. Sir, as I stated, it was my initial attempt at trying to recall the events that had occurred last fall and had initial recollection, as stated in those questions, was wrong, which is why I am so understanding of Mr. Altman not remembering the conversation. But I do, clearly, have a recollection of having the discussion with Mr. Altman, and that came to me over the period of the days following the preparation of those questions and answers as I was searching my own recollection. Senator SARBANES. But you recollected that you had the discussion with Mr. Nussbaum? Ms. HANSON. Yes, I did. 143 Senator SARBANES. In fact, you've set out a question, "But didn't you expect him to tell others, in fact, didn't you expect that he would tell others in the White House?" You answered: "I didn't expect him to do that. I expected that he would use the information to prepare himself for an inquiry." Then, you go on to say, "Who in Treasury or the RTC knew you had this conversation." "I don't recall that I told anyone of the conversation." "Did you tell Mr. Altman." "No." "Did anyone ask you to have this conversation." "no." Now, you're telling us that Mr. Altman asked you to have this conversation. Is that correct? Ms. HANSON. That's correct, Senator SARBANES. Now, you're telling us that you then told Mr. Altman about it. Is that correct? Ms. HANSON. That's correct. Those, as I stated, were prepared I took a laptop computer home from the office. Those were prepared in the middle of the night on March 1-2, 1994, when I was first trying to start the process of refreshing my recollection as to the events that occurred last fall. Over the period of the next several days, as I continued to search my memory, recollections came back to me. In the process of preparing for testimony before the Grand Jury, and continuing to search my recollection, I continued to recall more details. That's not an unusual process.
August 1, 1994 - Part 7
(20:00:43) Senator SARBANES. I understand that, but the point is not insignificant. Because your initial version, if I take what you said here, is that you talked to Mr. Nussbaum as it were, on your own volition, that you were an independent actor bringing to Mr. Nussbaum's attention the information which you had learned from the RTC. Would that be a correct reading if I accept these questions and answers? Ms. HANSON. That was my initial recollection, and it was not right, sir. Senator Sarbanes. How could you go astray on such an important point as to whether, in talking to Mr. Nussbaum, you were an independent actor proceeding on your own volition, as these questions and answers would suggest, or, as your questions and answers now suggest, that you were acting at Mr. Altman's behest and direction? Ms. HANSON. Sir, I have a clear recollection of having had a conversation about this matter with Mr. Altman. I would not have gone to see Mr. Nussbaum without the authorization and direction of Mr. Altman. I did not have that kind of relationship with Mr. Nussbaum. My contacts with him were extremely limited. Senator SARBANES. I understand that. Then why Ms. HANSON. In addition, the memorandum of September 30, 1993, that was subsequently located, confirms that Mr. Altman was aware of my conversations with Mr. Nussbaum and specifically states that I bad spoken with Mr. Nussbaum and Mr. Sloan. Senator SARBANES. Mr. Chairman, I'm trespassing on people's time. If I could just ask The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Just one more, but I am going to try to keep this more in bounds. Why don't you go ahead and do that. Senator Sarbanes. As I understand it, at some point you said 0 that going To talk to Mr. Nussbaum is not something I would do of my own volition. Is that correct, you testified to that effect? Ms. HANSON. I have just stated that I Senator SARBANES. You've said it now and youve said it where, too, I think in your deposition. Ms. HANSON. I don't recall that, sir. Senator SARBANES. But your view, now, is that this is not some-thing you would have done of your own accord? Ms. HANSON. That's my view. Senator SARBANES. Then, how did you set out a set of questions and answers which would suggest that you did do it of your own accord? Ms, HANSON. As I stated Senator SARBANES. Leaving aside this recollection problem, obviously, this set of answers, in effect, makes the point that you went on your own. You're now telling us you certainly would never go on your own, because that's not something you. would do. How, then, did you set out a set of questions and answers whose essential premise is that you acted on your own? Ms. HANSON. As I stated, that was my initial attempt to start refreshing my recollection. I have also stated that I accept full responsibility for making the decision-for talking with Mr. Nussbaum. I wouldn't hide behind an authorization from Mr. Altman as a shield for doing that. But I do, sir, have a clear recollection of having spoken with him. That came to me within the days after I prepared those questions and answers as I was searching for an understanding and a recollection of what the events in the fall, actually, had been. Senator SARBANES. My time's up. Thank you. Senator DOMENICI. Mr. Chairman, just a point of inquiry, how long do you intend to go tonight? The CHAIRMAN. I'd like to finish with this witness, if we can. It will depend, partly, on how many more Senators want to have a question period. I don't have a clear indication of that yet, but I'd like to try to finish with this witness tonight so we can start with a fresh panel tomorrow morning. We have Treasury witnesses scheduled, so I think we should try to do this if we possibly can. If the Members want to give me an indication, one by one, as to how much time they need---I think we've covered a good bit of ground and I don't want to foreclose any Senator, nor will I. I'll stay as long as it takes, and if the witness needs additional periods to nave a break, we'll do that as well. We've got to get this work done because we've got other witnesses we've got to bear from, Senator SASSER. Mr. Chairman, may I inquire, have all Senators had one round of questioning now? The CHAiRmAN. We've had the equivalent of that, although on the Republican side
1950s - Street Scenes - Cars Driving Through Small Town, People Cross Street
Cars driving up and down a city street; mountains in the distance. Caucasian males and females, adult and children, crossing city street; men and women entering Woolworth in BG.
Cleaning the streets
Littering
Signs - i.e. Keep America Clean
Men talking about littering
Wasting trash box
Littering country road
Man ordered by police to clean trash on road
Man ordered by police to clean trash on road
Trash dump
Littering the city street
Littering lake
Littering the zoo
Littering sea shore
Drivers littering
Littering picnic places
Littering the bridge
People talking about littering
People in parks
Littering farm fields
Throwing trash from car
On preview cassette 220038 Throwing trash from car, litter