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August 4, 1994 - Part 1
(09:25:29) The meeting was placed on my calendar by my assistant. She noted in the entry that the Office of the Chief of Staff wanted me to attend a meeting regarding the statute of limitations. This was the only information I had about the meeting prior to joining it. I had no discussions with Mr. Altman about the issue raised at the meeting prior to the meeting, nor did I have any contact with anyone at the Treasury Department concerning the subject of this meeting prior to it being held. I joined the February 2nd meeting in progress. Mr. Altman, with whom I had had previous contacts, as a member of the Administration's health care team, was speaking to the assembled group. As I recall, Mr. Altman was explaining a process by which the Resolution Trust Corporation staff would present to Mr. Altman a recommendation as to whether or not to seek a waiver of the statute of limitations from the President and Mrs. Clinton in connection with the RTC's investigation of an Arkansas bank. The significance of this for my office was that if and when a waiver were sought, it was sure to generate a new wave of press inquiries, to which my office, in conjunction with the rest of the White House, should be ready to respond. Mr. Altman went on to explain that he might not be the official to whom his waiver issue would be presented. In this context, he raised the issue of recusal from the process he was describing. He then explained that if he recused himself, a member of the RTC staff would make the final decision. He also stated that, in any case, if he did not recuse himself, he intended to follow the RTC staff recommendation, whatever it might be. I took him to mean that he did not see any need to overrule the RTC staff and that they would decide the proper way to discharge their duties. I then expressed my personal reaction to what Mr. Altman had said, questioning why he would recuse himself if he intended to follow the staff recommendation. 274 It seemed to me, by accepting the staff recommendation, no one would challenge his integrity. I recall Mr. Nussbaum responding to my statement by saying it was a decision that Mr. Altman would have to make. I do not have a clear recollection of the rest of the meeting. it lasted for approximately 45 minutes? I left the meeting when it was over. I took no action, other than to make a mental note to be alert to events on this issue as they unfolded. Several days after the meeting on February 2nd, I received a call from Mr. Altman telling me that he had decided not to recuse himself, and asking if I could gather a few White House staff members so he could make his announcement. I do not recall if Mr. Altman specified the staff members; however, I did call the White House Counsel's Office and reached Mr. Nussbaum or Mr. Eggleston, I cannot recall whom. I called Mr.'Ickes and Mr. Stephanopoulos. Mr. Altman stopped by my office in the west wing shortly thereafter and spoke briefly to the individuals who had gathered in my office, and then hurried away to his next appointment. That concludes my prepared remarks and I welcome any questions this Committee might have. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Ms. Williams. Let me pick up right at the end of your statement on this second meeting when Mr. Altman came back to indicate that he had decided not to recuse himself. What did he say in that meeting?. Ms. WILLIAMS. He said I am not going to recuse myself. I have decided not to recuse myself The CHAIRMAN. How long would you say that meeting lasted? MS. WILLIAMS. It did not last long at all, because Mr. Altman had another appointment to get to. He was in fact standing, as I recall, and had his briefcase in his hand. The CHAIRMAN. Did he give his reasons? Ms. WILLIAMS. No, he did not, not that I recall. The CHAIRMAN. Now, do I understand, you indicate that your best estimate is that the meeting the day before lasted about 45 minutes? Now last night, Mr. Eggleston estimated that about half the, meeting time was devoted to the recusal issue. Would that be your recollection, or not? Ms. WILLIAMS. I have not thought about the amount of time,' quite frankly. I just remember, on the whole, it was about 45 minutes. The CHAIRMAN. Well, I want you to think about it for a minute. How long do you think the recusal part would have taken, as a percentage of the whole meeting? Ms. WILLIAMS. Well, since I came in late to the meeting, it is dif- ficult for me to say if it were half of the meeting. I do not recall, the exact time that I came into the meeting, but it was in progress, They had settled into a meeting.
All-Star Golf
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Pearl Harbor
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Pearl Harbor
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Long Shot over a cliff, and into a valleyPali view
August 4, 1994 - Part 1
(09:30:18) But I was there for some discussion of the recusal, but I do not, know how much time. 275 The CHAIRMAN, When Mr. Altman testified before us the other day, he indicated that in the hours before the meeting on the 2nd, the first meeting here of the two, that he had reached a decision to recuse himself, and that he was going to express that view at that first meeting on February 2nd, the one that we have just discussed and you arrived at a little bit late. And so he came into that meeting. Were you there at the time when he indicated that he had decided that he was going to recuse himself? Ms. WILLIAMS. I do not believe that I was there, because my general understanding was that he was in a decisionmaking mode; that he had not necessarily made a decision. The CHAIRMAN. Well, he must have given some indication as to his intention, did he not? Is that not what triggered the discussion? MS. WILLIAMS. Well, what triggered my interest and I guess my attention in the discussion itself, was his discussion of the process by which the President and Mrs. Clinton would be asked to possibly waive their rights to the statute of limitations. And so I responded, in terms of the recusal, to the limited question of whether or not they would be asked to waive their rights and the process by which this decision would be made. If the RTC staff would make the decision or, on the other hand, I believe he said, or on the other hand, if I decide to recuse myself, the RTC staff will make the decision. If I stay in the position then I will be making the decision. That is what triggered the discussion for recusal for me. The CHAIRMAN. Well, Mr. Altman had a briefing sheet from which he was working in that meeting on the 2nd, I want to read you the last line on his briefing sheet. This was prepared ahead of time, and he affirmed that in his testimony here just a day ago, On this briefing point, he says this: I have decided that I will recuse myself from the decisionmaking process as Interim CEO of the RTC because of my relationship with the President and Mrs. Clinton. And so the clear sense we have from his testimony was that he had made this decision, he went to the meeting with an intention to express it, and did so. Now I want to know whether you heard that part of the discussion or not? I know you have testified that you thought that he ought not to recuse himself. MS. WILLIAMS. That is right. The CHAIRMAN. And I am going to come to that in a minute. And apparently Mr. Nussbaum also expressed himself that Mr. Altman should not recuse himself. But are you saying to us, did Mr. Altman, when you were there, indicate that his intention was to recuse himself? Ms. WILLIAMS. Sir, I am saying to you, to the best of my recollection I did not hear him say that. The CHAIRMAN. All right, now let me get to the point, the view expressed by others in the room. In your deposition, you have indicated to us that your reaction to this discussion was that he ought not to recuse himself. 276 The CHAIRMAN. All right. Now, with Mr. Nussbaum, did Mr. Nussbaum indicate his opinion that Mr. Altman ought not to recuse himself Ms. WILLIAMS. I do not recall exactly what Mr. Nussbaum said but I do recall that after I made my statement, that Mr. Nussbaum had said, whatever the decision Mr. Altman will have to make it or something to that effect. As I indicated in my statement, although now I wish I had been much more attentive, at the point that I felt I understood from Mr. Altman what the process was to be, because that really is what I was interested in at that point, and I had had my say, I must admit to you that my attention wandered from that meeting. I was racing on to the next thing I had to do. The CHAIRMAN. Now the indications we have are that Mr. Nussbaum did express the view that Mr. Altman should not recuse himself and apparently had a very strong feeling about it. You are not aware of that?
Johnson In Hawaii: President Meets With Saigon Leaders
Crowds at the Honolulu airport greet President Johnson as he arrives with top advisors for a Summit conference with South Vietnamese leaders. It is a meeting without precedent and is designed to strengthen United States determination to pursue to the end the drive against Communist domination in South Vietnam. Honolulu, Hawaii People standing behind the gates at Honolulu airport waiting to greet President Lyndon Baines Johnson. CU - United States of American, Air Force 1, taxing down the runway. MS - United States honor guard stands at attention. MS - President Johnson disembarking from Air Force One, accompanied by his political aid and some South Vietnamese leaders. MS - President Johnson shaking hands with some military high brass. MS - General Westmoreland being hugged by his 17 year old daughter on her return back to Hawaii. MS - General Westmoreland's 17-year old daughter hugging and kissing President Johnson. POV - President's motorcade passing people lined up on the streets who came out to greet him. CUS - President Johnson shaking hands with every one who wishes to greet him.
Soviet Moon Landing: Lunar IX Transmits Photos To Earth
The Soviet finally achieve a soft landing on the moon after at least four previous failures. Their Lunar IX sends back pictures that are received in England before the Russians have anything to say. The United States is not expected to put a Surveyor craft on the moon until this summer. POV - Looking up at the moon. CU - An animated picture of the Lunar landing vassal. MS - Another animated picture of the space craft leaving the earth and traveling to the moon and landing. MS - Closing in on the moon, they show how the surface would be. MS - A technician sitting a the controls of a master telescope, Jodrell Bank Conservatory in Manchester, England. Camera panning shot - The world's larges antenna. CUS - Another technician collecting and recording signals from the Russian Lunar Space Craft. CUS - Technician interpretations of the Russian's space signals. MS - The surface of the moon.
Worst Air Crash: Tokyo Disaster Takes 133 Lives
The worst single plane disaster in history takes the lives of 133 aboard a Japanese airliner as it plunges into Tokyo Bay just seconds away from a landing. The giant American jet was carrying the holiday visitors back from a tour of Japan's famous winter carnival at Hokkaido in the north. Tokyo, Japan Night time where throngs stand looking out on Tokyo Bay. High Angle Shot - Rescuers are walking with a body on a stretcher covered up with a blanket. MS - Parts of the crashed airplane, MS - Part of the window section of the plane. MS - Rescue workers have more bodies on stretchers covered up with blankets. MS - Waterfront warehouse becomes a temporary morgue where relatives come in and identify the remains. CU - A woman looking down at a body. Flowers are placed on top of the make-shift coffin. Medium High Angle - Make-shift casket with flowers placed on top, a man and a woman engaged in conversation. MS - Family members praying for the dearly departed. MS - Search helicopters and boats comb the ocean for bodies. High Angle Shot - Family members standing at the railing looking for bodies and missing members of their families.
"The Rare Breed": Historical Western Opens In Texas
Fort Worth is the scene for the first of four pre-release showings of "The Rare Breed", an historical western, that has white-faced Herefords as unbilled stars. Maureen O'Hara and James Stewart are on hand for the premiere that narrates this milestone in early Texas history. Forth Worth, Texas Movie Theatre with a 'Rare Breed' marquee and throngs queue up to see movie. CU - Movie fans standing in line. CU - Sign, Champion - Polled Hereford Bull - 1966 Southwestern Exposition And Fat Stock Show - Exhibited By Jesse Riffle & Sons. CUS - A cow. CUS - Marquee - "World Premiere - The Rare Breed - James Stewart - On Stage - Maureen O Hara - Tonight Only." MS - People standing in line to gain entrance for a World Premiere and a penned up cow. CUS - High School Marching Band. CU - Maureen O'Hara. CUS - Jimmy Stewart. MS - The theatre and the people standing in line.
Hockey Stars On The Rise - kids
They start 'em young in Canada when it comes to teaching them the national sport, mayhem on ice. Seven hundred kids are taking part in this year's tiny tyke hockey and they take all the falls and bumps in their stride. Canada Little boys walking into a ice skating arena with their hockey sticks. High Angle - Little Boys getting dressed into their hockey attire. High Angle - Two little boys putting on their ice skates. MS - Boy putting on his helmet. MS - A team of little boys go on to the ice all dressed up like hockey players. MS - Boys skating with their hockey sticks and falling down. High Angle - Boys hitting the puck around the ice. MS - The little Goalie falls.
Final Curtain: Sophie Tucker's Death Ends 60-Year Career
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August 4, 1994 - Part 1
(09:35:45) Ms. WILLIAMS. I do not challenge that in the recollection of others, but if I am truthful to what I recall, that is not what I was focused on. I do not recall it. The CHAIRMAN. I understand, and I appreciate that, and I want you to be truthful, and I appreciate your saying that. Did Mr. Ickes express an opinion against recusal while you were there? Ms. WILLIAMS. I do not recall what Mr. Ickes said. The CHAIRMAN. Did anybody else who was in the meeting express an opinion against recusal while you were there? Ms. WILLIAMS. I do not recall. The CHAIRMAN. So they may have, or they may not have, you just do not have any memory of it? Ms. WILLIAMS. Yes. I have to tell you that I just, as I do with many meetings, I kind of walk in, size up the situation, take what I think I need from the meeting, and then I am generally on to MY next thought. The CHAIRMAN. Did anybody in the meeting support Mr. Altman's intention to recuse himself.? Is that correct? MS. WILLIAMS. My reaction was to Mr. Altman saying that whatever the decision that the RTC staff would render about waiving the rights of the statute of limitations, he would accept. And my approach was a commonsense approach to this, which is, if you are going to depend on and defer to staff in this matter, which I thought was a perfectly appropriate thing for him to do since they had been working on the case and knew best, then why should you have to recuse yourself. The CHAIRMAN. Well, I understand the reasoning, and I am glad to have that, but the bottom line then is that it was your view that he ought not to recuse himself then. Is that right? Ms. WILLIAMS. With respect to the statute of limitations which was what I was focusing on and his decision in that matter in terms of accepting a recommendation, one way or the other, I thought he should not recuse himself. 277 MS. WILLIAMS. I did not hear anyone support Mr. Altman's intention to recuse himself, but as I said to you, I did hear Mr. Nussbaum say, this is Mr. Altman's decision. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Senator D'Amato. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR DAMATO Senator D'AMATO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Williams, I am interested in your interest as it related to the statute of limitations that you mentioned and what your concern might have been. You said that they discussed that and you discussed it. Would you just touch on that for a moment? Ms. WILLIAMS. Well, I have to tell you that I did not have a lot of concern going into that meeting, except for the fact, a great deal of my job involves trying to have enough information to be able to respond to future inquiries. I have been a strong and outspoken person when it comes to being prepared, knowing what the landscape was. So when I was in that meeting, my concern was, what information, if any, should I have in the back of my head so if this issue moves to the forefront Senator DAMATO. Recusal issue? Ms. WILLIAMS. No. The statute of limitations. I had no idea that recusal would even be discussed at the meeting. Senator DAMATO. Let me ask you, did you believe that if Roger Altman stayed on, did he give you the sense that he would be this is my word-rubber stamped, that he would take whatever decision flowed from the people at RTC? Was that your view? Ms. WILLIAMS. Well, my view would not be to call taking the recommendation of the RTC staff who had been working on this investigation as rubber stamp. I mean, staff plays a very important and vital part because they monitor, they watch things, they were close to the issue. So I did not think of it as a rubber stamp. I actually thought it was a pretty intelligent decision to accept the recommendation of a staff who had been involved in this. Senator D'AMATO. Did he indicate to you that that is what he would do, that he would take that recommendation? Ms. WILLIAMS. Yes, he indicated to the group that that is what he planned to do. Senator D'AMATO. But there came a point in time when Mrs. Kulka's name was mentioned. I think everybody testified they remember that, and at that point, Mr. Nussbaum expressed some strong reservations about Mrs. Kulka being the decisionmaker. Ms. WILLIAMS. Umm hmm. Senator D'AMATO. Do you recall that when he said, you know, she is tough and he started asking questions, how did she get hired, and will Ellen Kulka be the person? Do you recall that? Ms. WILLIAMS. I wish I had a specific recollection of that, but I just do not. 278 Senator D'AMATO. Let me ask you, there came a time, basically Mr. Altman said he was going to then consider everything that had been raised, right? And you tell me, your impression was that he was going to think about the issue of whether or not to recuse himself.? Ms. WILLIAMS. My impression was that he was thinking about' the issue. Senator D'AMATO. OK. But the next day he called you. Is that correct? Ms. WILLIAMS. It could have been the next day or the day after, Senator D'AMATO. And he said what? He said something about gathering people together, a group of people together because I want to tell them that I have made a decision and I am not going to recuse myself, I am going to stay on?
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Admiral Kansom and Govenor Hainback
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