Advanced Search
Beaches
Complete wash-overSurf
Beaches
Shore & Surf ***
Beaches
Surf & shore at Waiaka Lodge ***
August 3, 1994 - Part 1
(10:15:09) And I would like to get an indication as to what and how you intend to deal with that when you get an opportunity to review these materials. I think that is important and I would appreciate that. Secretary BENTSEN. Senator, I will be pleased to receive them. Senator DAMATO. We will send them to you. And I thank the Chair. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Sarbanes. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR SARBANES Senator SARBANES. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Secretary, welcome. Mr. Altman and Ms. Hanson directly contradict one another about on what basis she went to see Nussbaum and to report to him back at the end of September. Do you have any knowledge about that matter? Secretary BENTSEN. No, I did not. I did not have knowledge of it. 13 Senator SARBANES. And do you have any perceptions now on this issue of whether Altman tasked her to go or whether she went on her own? Secretary BENTSEN. No. What you have in this, Senator is a situation, things that happened over 5 to 10 months ago, and you obviously have different recollections by the parties involved. That is not surprising. Senator SARBANES. Now you met with Altman and Hanson, I take it, on the 1st of February, and Altman discussed with you that he was thinking of recusing himself? Secretary BENTSEN. That is correct, Senator SARBANES. And then again you met with him the day before the hearing here on the 23rd of February? Secretary BENTSEN. That is correct. Senator SARBANES. And again, I take it, the issue of recusal came up in your discussions with Altman? Secretary BENTSEN. Yes, I think it did. Senator SARBANES. Now he has indicated to us that you in effect counseled or advised him to recuse himself. Secretary BENTSEN. I understand that he does. Let me say this, I sympathized with him a great deal. I thought he was in a tough position. He might have taken that and interpreted it that way. But I also very clearly, and I do not remember any such specific recommendation, but I do, I do recall very definitely this. That I told him it was his decision to make. lt was his judgment to exercise. That I did not know the facts in that case, did not have it, and was in no position to make that determination or tell him what he should do. Senator SARBANES. Did he indicate to you, in the second meeting on the 23rd of February-he met with you on the 1st of February and then he went to that meeting at the White House where the recusal matter arose. He then met with you on the 23rd of February. At the second meeting, did he indicate anything about what had transpired at the White House meeting on the recusal, and whether he felt he had been put under pressure not to recuse himself at that meeting at the White House? Secretary BENTSEN. I do not remember his stating that to me. Senator SARBANES. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Gramm. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR GRAMM Senator GRAMM. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Senator Bentsen, I -want to ask you a couple of questions and then get Secretary BENTSEN. Well I was called Senator for a long time, and I accept that. Senator GRAMM. [continuing]. Fairly deeply into a couple. The Treasury Department has about how many employees? Just guess. Secretary BENTSEN. Well it is a guess, but it is a bunch. I think it is on the order of 160,000 people. 14 Senator GRAMM. How many people at the Treasury Department did you actually hire that were your people? I thought I remembered when you went over from the Senate secretary BENTSEN. Well I took Sam Sessions. Sam Sessions went over with me. Jack DeVore went over with me. Maurice Foley went over with me. Senator GRAMM. Would you say of the 160,000 that fewer than 10 were, quote, your people? Secretary BENTSEN. I think that is correct. Senator GRAMM. Mr. Altman was the President's appointment. While I am not in any way suggesting you were in any way unsupportive, he was not your nominee? Secretary BENTSEN. No, that is correct. Senator GRAMM. And the same would be true of Ms. Hanson? Secretary BENTSEN. Yes, that is right. Senator GRAMM. So basically in this 160,000 person agency, you have about 10 people that are your people, that came with you. Secretary BENTSEN. That is correct. Senator GRAMM. I would just like to say, having listened to Jack DeVore, and Jack is your Press Secretary, that as a person that I have worked with, and in some cases worked against, I think you were well- served by having a few gray hairs over in your Department. I was struck, yesterday, by
Wasted Land (H.A.D.S.) Over Cultivated Field
Wasted Land (H.A.D.S.) Over Cultivated Field
Farms, Farm Houses
Farms, Farm Houses
Farm House (Young Man Looking)
Farm House (Young Man Looking)
Planting Farm Fields
Planting Farm Fields
Aerial of Farm Field
Aerial of Farm Field
Farming (Planting Seeds)
Farming (Planting Seeds)
Farm (Stables)
Farm (Stables)
Farm
Farm
(No Title)
(No Title)
Coffee Industry
Coffee Industry
Stock Agriculture
Stock Agriculture
A.V. Farmland
A.V. Farmland
Old Farming (belongs in #22)
Old Farming (belongs in #22)
Ice Cream
Ice Cream
Dairy van, Large Milk Truck Unloading
Dairy van, Large Milk Truck Unloading
Ice Cream - Assembly Line, Cartons, Ladies Working
Ice Cream - Assembly Line, Cartons, Ladies Working
Exterior - Ice Cream Stands - Parlors, CSL
Exterior - Ice Cream Stands - Parlors, CSL Color Orig.
Cow Milking Machines
Cow Milking Machines
Misc. Dairy Industry
Misc. Dairy Industry
August 3, 1994 - Part 1
(10:20:36) Secretary BENTSEN. Let me interrupt a minute about Jack DeVore, because that is a long-time friend. He is the kind of a fellow that you would not hesitate to make guardian of your children. Senator GRAMM. I guess people assume that we sit up here and ask questions and do not learn anything. One of the things I have learned is, if you are trying to run the Government, you want a few people that have some experience, that know what they are doing, and I think you were blessed by having him. Secretary BENTSEN. Thank you. Senator GRAMM. Now I want to go to the testimony of Ms. Hanson. Mr. Secretary, I know that a lot of this stuff never bubbled up to you, or if it did, it bubbled up at a time when you were doing 50 other things. One of the things I am also convinced of is that we can never, ever have the acting head of an agency like the RTC be a person who has line authority in the Executive Branch of Government. That must never happen again, and as long as I am here, given the ability under the Senate Rules for one Member to stop something, I intend to stop it. But Secretary Bentsen, you have worked with Ms. Hanson. She is your Counsel, the General Counsel, for the Department, so you know her pretty well? Secretary BENTSEN. That is correct. Senator GRAMM. Now on September 29th, Ms. Hanson went to the White House. As far as we know that is the first meeting she had ever had where she went over to the White House to visit with someone as senior as Mr. Nussbaum and a handful of other people, There is conflicting testimony. I do not expect you to know who is 15 telling the, truth, but I want to ask you some questions related to what you might know or have feelings about. Secretary BENTSEN. All right. Senator GRAMM. Ms. Hanson says, under oath, that she was notified on behalf of Mr. Altman about these 9 referrals for criminal prosecution, and that Mr. Altman told her to go to the White House and tell Mr. Nussbaum. In fact, we also have another sworn statement in which Mr. Roelle says he was present in the room when she was told to communicate that information. None of these facts you know independently and we all understand that. But here is the point. Ms. Hanson is relatively young, she is relatively new on the job, and she is going to the White House to brief the President's Counsel on a criminal referral that has mentioned the President of the United States. She made, in her testimony, a major point of the fact that never, ever would there have been any possibility that she would have undertaken, on her own, that first time, to go to the White House for that meeting, had Roger Altman not told her to do it. I am not asking you to inject yourself into what is true and what is not true, but in your opinion, leaving everything else aside, do you believe, knowing her, knowing her position, knowing how the White House works and the Treasury works, do you believe it is likely that she would have initiated that contact without somebody telling her to do it? Secretary BENTSEN. That is an interesting question, Senator. Let me--she is a very competent, able person. She has a lot of self-confidence. I think that is possible, yes, possible. Senator GRAMM. You think it is possible that she, on her own initiative, without the clearance of anybody else, would have undertaken that activity? Secretary BENTSEN. I said possible. Senator GRAMM. Do you think it is likely? I know these are subtle distinctions, but I do think they are important. I think it is a fair question. Secretary BENTSEN. I do not really want to be the judge of that, Senator. Senator GRAMM. The recusal issue obviously has become a big issue. I have to admit, Mr. Secretary, in sitting here yesterday, and we sat here for 12 hours, I was stunned at our inability to get an answer out of Mr. Altman. I was stunned by the literally dozen clear contradictions. I want to read, from the front page of the Washington Post this morning, the following statement. This is an analysis article which appeared on the front page of the Post. Maybe you read it. Altman's statement about White House Treasury discussions on the Whitewater case triggered a flurry of hurried sessions at the White House, beginning that afternoon and continuing over the next several days. Senior officials, many of whom had participated in the very meetings Altman had failed to mention to the Senate, scrambled to determine what to do about his testimony.