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Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 12, 1973 (1/2)
[00.35.28--Sen. ERVIN.] Senator ERVIN. The committee will come to order. Mr. Sanders. Mr. SANDERS. Mr. Stans, the exhibit just handed you has been marked for identification and we are going to defer that, I would like you to review it again and we will take that matter up at such time as you return for further testimony before the committee. I want to ask you a few more questions about Gordon Liddy's assumption of the job as counsel for the finance committee. At the time that occurred, were you aware of any conflict that he had been having with Magruder? Mr. STANS. No, I wasn't. I didn't learn about that -until quite recently, It is a very interesting development, because I am not, quite sure why Mr. Magruder was so generous in giving me Mr. Liddy's services. But on the other hand, I think Mr. Liddy did a good job as counsel. Whatever else he did or may have, done was something else, but as counsel he did an effective job. Mr. SANDERS. Did it ever appear to you that he was perhaps not devoting full time to his responsibilities as legal counsel for the finance committee? Mr. STANS. Not, that I observed. Mr. Liddy was one of those who attended the daily staff meetings and his attendance was quite regular. I recall only once or twice when he said he had some mission to do outside of Washington and asked if he could have a day off. That was not, particularly unusual. I gave him responsibilities that required daily follow-up and he did the follow-up that was required. For example, just before April 7, it, was necessary for every committee to file with the General Accounting Office a registration statement and to file a qualifying statement with the Treasury Department. That included not only our committees in Washington, but each of the 51 States. Mr. Liddy had that responsibility and he gave me regular reports on what was happening and which one was in default and which one wasn't. And I thought he administered it well, Mr. SANDERS. I believe you did say earlier that you did have some awareness that he had some responsibilities with regard to the San Diego convention? Mr. STANS. This is something that, as I have said, I picked up quite casually, and as I recall it, late in May. And I am not quite sure, but I think it came from Magruder, but it may have come from some other source. Mr. SANDERS. YOU would judge that that was not specifically within the scope of responsibilities as legal counsel for the finance committee? Mr. STANS. No, it was not. But apparently, when Mr. Liddy came to the finance committee from the campaign committee there was an understanding that he had or Magruder had with Sloan that he was going to give something like 96 or 98 percent of his time to the finance. committee, but he had a few things still to look after for the campaign committee. I don't think I was aware of that at the time, but, I heard about it somewhere along the line. Mr. SANDERS. At, the time of Mr. Liddy's termination, were you consulted by Mr. Mardian? Mr. STANS. Yes. I believe the date was June, 28 of last year. Mr. Mardian called me to his office and handed me a memorandum to read. It was to the effect that Mr. Liddy had failed to cooperate with the FBI, had not answered their questions, and Mr. Mardian recommended to me that he be discharged and asked for my approval. I put my approval right on the form and Mr. Mardian undertook to call Liddy in and tell him that his services were no longer required. Mr. SANDERS. At that point, were you aware of any facts which indicated involvement by Mr. Liddy in the Watergate, in the illegal entry of the Democratic National Committee? Mr. STANS. I was not. Mr. SANDERS. Did you at any time have a conversation with Mr. Liddy concerning Segretti? Mr. STANS. I don't recall ever discussing Segretti's name with anyone until I read it in the newspapers some months ago. I do not know Donald Segretti and never discussed him with anyone. Mr. SANDERS. Mr. Stans, did you have any awareness of an effort on the part of Mr. Magruder to induce Mr. Sloan to falsify testimony., Mr. STANS. Not until Mr. Sloan told me about it, and I don't recall how soon it was after it happened. I think it was a, matter of some days after it had happened, Mr. Magruder had come to me and asked me how much money Sloan had given to Liddy and I said I really did not, know, that he should talk to Sloan about it, And that is about the substance of the, discussion I had with Magruder. I do not recall whether he named any amounts or not, but he was probing to find out and I could not help him on it, [00.41.33]
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Marine Mammals - Sea Otter
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Marine Mammals - Sea Otter
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Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 12, 1973 (1/2)
[00.41.33] Mr. SANDERS. Did you make any mention to him of any options he would have at such time as he had to make a choice, at, such time as he would be required to testify? Mr. STANS. Are you referring now to Magruder or Sloan? Mr. SANDERS. Sloan. Mr. STANS. I do not recall that I did. I think when Sloan told me that Magruder had asked him to testify to other amounts than he had given him, my reply to Sloan was to tell the truth. That is the only advice I gave. him. Mr. SANDERS. Do you recall any discussion with him, concerning the use of the fifth amendment? Mr. STANS. No, I do not recall any discussion about that. Mr. SANDERS. I just have one more question, Mr. Stans. Did you at any time seek from Mr. Parkinson or Mr. O'Brien in their capacities as attorneys for the Committee To Re-Elect the President--and I must add the Finance Committee To Re-Elect the President--did you at any time seek from them any status of their work, any report of their work or an explanation of the facts that they were developing? Mr. STANS. Well, I do not know that I ever asked for a report, but I was in fairly regular communication with them on a great many things. Most of my conversations with them were with regard to the litigation in which we were involved on a number of fronts. Mr. SANDERS. All right. Let me confine my question to the criminal aspects of their representation on of the committee--that is, the grand jury testimony that was being required. I am not inquiring into the civil action. Mr. BARKER. Mr. Sanders, might I observe for the record that Mr. Parkinson was Mr. Stans' personal counsel as well as committee counsel, and of course, you are inquiring into the, area of attorney-client privileges. Mr. SANDERS. All right. Well, Mr. Stans, I will defer my question at, this time and relinquish any further time, Mr. Chairman. Senator ERVIN. Senator Montoya. Senator MONTOYA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Stans, going back to the, time prior to April 7, you indicated, I believe, that total cash on hand was approximately $1.5 million, is that, correct? Mr. STANS. I did not mean to say that, Senator. The total cash received during the entire period of the campaign, I believe, including the cash turned over by Mr. Kalmbach was about, $1,700,000. There never was that, much on hand at any one time. Senator MONTOYA, Then including this amount the sum which was turned over from the 1968 Presidential election? Mr. STANS. I am including in that, figure the amount which was turned over from the 1968 election to the extent that at it, was in cash. Senator MONTOYA. How much of it, was in cash? Mr. STANS. About $233,000. Senator MONTOYA. And the other amount or balance of the $680,000 Was commingled with the 1972 election fund? Mr. STANS. Yes. There was; $680,000 received in the form of checks from accounts under Mr. Kalmbach's control that came into the committee on February 3 of last year from 1968 money principally, that became part of the funds of the committee to use from them on. Senator MONTOYA. Then after April 7, what money came to the committee in cash? Mr. STANS. There were three or four items that I am aware of. One was an item of $10,000 from a Mr. and Mrs. Saunders in Mississippi that came to the committee but without adequate instructions as to how it should be handled and to which committees it should be distributed to and that matter was not cleared up by the time the $81,000 was given to Mr. LaRue so it was included in that $81,000 with a request to Mr. LaRue that he give it back unless the parties were willing to allow it to be spread among committees in their name. Mr. LaRue has confirmed by letter through his attorney that he gave that $10,000 back, That is the first cash item. [00.47.12]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 12, 1973 (1/2)
[00.47.12] Mr. STANS. There was a receipt of $3,000 from two men in Omaha that Mr. Sloan received after April 7 and before June 23 that I was not aware of until the $81,000 were turned over to Mr. LaRue. At that time I asked Mr. LaRue to handle that also and either get clearance from the contributors to deposit that money or return it to them. Mr. LaRue told me sometime later that he had not been able to do it with the result that the $3,000 was not returned to them, and in order to clear the matter we ran down the names of the contributors and reported them in our report that was filed last Saturday. That at is the second item of money received. There was a third contribution in cash of $50,000 received from a Lehigh Valley farmer's cooperative through its attorney in Washington that was received by the treasurer after April 7 and before June 23. I was not aware of the details of that transaction and did not learn about, it until October. We have since been able to identify the source of the money and it has also been reported in our last report to the General Accounting Office. Those are three transactions. There were some other miscellaneous cash items received from contributors that I do not recall, whose names were reported and the money was put in the, bank just as though it was by check so that it has no distinction. Senator MONTOYA. Did you receive many contributions over and above $10,000 in cash? Mr. STANS. Before I answer that, could I complete my other answer, because there was one other transaction? Senator MONTOYA. Yes. Mr. STANS. There was a total of $39,000 in cash received in two transactions representing funds raised by former Gov. Tim Babcock of Montana. We did not get the names of the contributors until recently, and that money has now been reported to the General Accounting Office in our last report. Now, as to your last question, did we receive many contributions of $10,000, in excess of $10,000 in cash? I would have to guess, Senator, as I do not have any list in front of me. I would guess that we probably received 30, possibly 35 contributions of $10,000 or more in cash. Senator MONTOYA. Let us go into the $20,000 contributions in cash. How many would you say you received in that, category? Mr. STANS. $20,000? Well, you are testing my memory now and I am not quite sure. I would say that perhaps five less than the number I gave you before that were in $10,000 amounts, So that the balance of 25 to 30 would have been $20,000 or more. Senator MONTOYA.. Let us go into the $50,000 bracket. How many of those did you receive? Mr. STANS. Well, I have to do a considerable amount of guessing here, I would say about 10, maybe 12. Senator MONTOYA. Of course, what, I am trying to elicit from you, Mr. Stans, it has nothing to do with the trial in New York, I want you to understand that. Mr. STANS, I understand that. Mr. BARKER. Senator Montoya, any answers Mr. Stans would make he will eliminate any references to that. Is that understood? Senator MONTOYA. Yes, I want him to. Let-- Mr. STANS. Then, you have to reduce each amount I gave you by one. [Laughter.) Senator MONTOYA. Let us go into the cash disbursements, Mr. Stans. I believe you mentioned that, before April 7 that you authorized or tacitly approved a disbursement of $350,000 to Mr. Kalmbach. Mr. STANS. May I correct, that, slightly? I had knowledge of it after it, happened, I raised no objection to it, but I do not recall ever approving it as such. And the payment was not made to Mr. Kalmbach It was made by Mr. Sloan 'at the direction of Mr. Kalmbach to Gordon Strachan of the White House staff. [00.52.48]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 12, 1973 (1/2)
[00.52.48] Senator MONTOYA. Did Mr. Sloan contact you about this contribution before he distributed the same? Mr. STANS. That is where my recollection differs from his. My recollection is that, I learned about it, from Mr. Sloan after it was distributed but I really do not think that, is material. Senator MONTOYA. What about, the $75,000 contribution to Mr. Kalmbach about which he, called you from the Statler-Hilton Hotel. Did you approve this? Mr. STANS. Well, I gave him the money, as I said, from sources outside the committee, and relying on his good faith and on his assurance,, to me that it -was an important transaction and that he had cleared it with high authorities and he was doing it at their request. Senator MONTOYA. You knew of course that, Mr. Kalmbach was a man of very high influence in the, White House, did you not? Mr. STANS. Yes, I did. Senator MONTOYA. You knew he had a good line of communication with those in the upper echelons in the White House? Mr. STANS. No question about it, Senator. Senator MONTOYA. '"Then he mentioned that this request was coming from very high authority-, what did go through your mind as to who that person might be? Mr. STANS. Well, I knew the people with whom Mr. Kalmbach had 'very close association and contact. I did not, try to identify anyone as the party to that transaction-. I did learn about 6 weeks ago from Mr. Kalmbach and his attorney who it, was. Senator MONTOYA. Who was it? [00.54.38] Mr. STANS. he fold me the request to raise the money came from John Dean. That, he asked Mr. Dean whether it was a legal transaction and Dean assured him it, was. But, being unwilling to proceed solely on that basis he, went to Mr. Ehrlichman and asked Mr. Ehrlichman if it was something that should be done and whether it was legal and that Mr. Ehrlichman told him it, was. Now that is hearsay but I got that, as I said, about 6 or 8 weeks ago from Mr. Kalmbach and his attorney. Senator MONTOYA. Did not, Mr. Kalmbach tell you that that this was not going to be used for the, campaign, that it was going to be used for other purposes? Mr. STANS. Yes, he did. Senator MONTOYA. Did that arouse your curiosity? Mr. STANS. NO; not in the relationship that I had with Mr. Kalmbach, and that he had with the White House. Don't forget that Mr. Kalmbach had been entrusted with a very large sum of money that he had left over from the 1968 campaign, he had -worked with the White House people in the handling of that, sum of money, and I believed Mr. Kalmbach when he said it was important but, he, could not tell me what it was about, and I trusted him and I still do. Senator MONTOYA. Wasn't, it your understanding, Mr. Stans, that when you were collecting this money from contributors that the money would be used strictly for political purposes? Mr. STANS. Oh, Senator, I think I have already said that the money I gave to Kalmbach was not money that, had come as contributions. Senator MONTOYA. What money did you give him? Mr. STANS. Well, I will be glad to tell you. Senator MONTOYA. I believe you stated that) $407 000 of that was from your safe and I believe you have stated before through other sources that $35,000 came from contributions made by a foreign national. Mr. STANS. Let me recite that very carefully so that, I can correct the amounts as well; $45,000 of the money I gave to Mr. Kalmbach was money that I had received from him just about, the time I became finance chairman to use for expenses in the campaign, not for ordinary expenses, but for unusual expenses that I might incur, such as using jet transportation by charter if I needed to get, around the country quickly, or to pay for a vacation because at that point, I was working Without Compensation. Mr. Kalmbach gave me $50,000 to use for that kind of expense. But as I got into the campaign I decided I was not, going to incur much of that type of expense, I didn't need the money, and was submitting regular expense accounts for all the amounts I incurred on behalf of the committee. So I had $45,000 of that still in my safe. deposit, box, and when Mr. Mr. Kalmbach said he had this urgent need for or in money for a very high purpose on behalf of the White House,, I went to the safe deposit box and got that money and gave it, to him. That was not Money belonging to the finance committee. [00.58.10]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 12, 1973 (1/2)
[00.58.10] Senator MONTOYA. Did You ever indicate to him that it was his own money that, you were giving back? Mr. STANS. Well, it really wasn't his own money It, was money entrusted to him but, I am not sure whether I told him that I at that time. I think I did but he knows it now. [Laughter.] Senator MONTOYA. Why would he use the. plea that this request was coming from high authority in the White House, if he was reclaiming his own money? Mr. STANS. 'Well, he wasn't reclaiming, Senator, he was not reclaiming his own money. It happened that that was about the only money that, I could put my hands on to help him meet the needs that he had expressed, and I was willing to give it up because I wasn't going to use it for the purpose for which I had originally received it. Senator MONTOYA. Let, us go into the $30,000; where did you get, that? Mr. STAINS. On the same day. a Philippine national had been in my office and said he was an acquaintance of the President. Senator MONTOYA. Who Was it? Mr. STANS. I can refer to a paper and give you his name. The Honorable Ernesto V. Lagdameo. He is a Philippine businessman. Senator MONTOYA. What does he do? Does he deal in sugar? Mr. STANS. Well, it does not sound like it from the name of the company. He is chairman of the board of' Sanitary Wares Manufacturing Corp.--Wares (W-a-r-e-s). I take it to be a plumbing supply firm or something of that, type. Senator MONTOYA. Quite ironical, wouldn't, you say? [Laughter.] Mr. STANS. I think -Mr. Lagdameo is a very innocent party here. He came in to see me, said that he was an acquaintance of the President, and was prepared on behalf of himself and some of his friends, to make a contribution to the campaign if it, could be legally received. Senator MONTOYA. And what about the other friends? Who were they, the other Filipino friends? Mr. STANS. They were two of his associates the same company. Senator 'MONTOYA. Do you have their names? Mr. STANS. I have them here. Mr. Jesus Cobarrus, Sr.---J-e-s-u-s C-o-b-a-r-r-u-s, Sr.--who is With the same company; and Mr. -I can't, pronounce Spanish as well as you can, Senator-Eugenio Senator MONTOYA. Eugenio? Mr. STANS. Eugenio Lopez, Jr. Senator MONTOYA. All right. Mr. STANS. There was at that, time considerable doubt as to whether we could receive contributions from foreign nationals. Back in the 1968 campaign, we had opinions of counsel that it was perfectly proper to receive a contribution from a foreign citizen and we did receive, some contributions, of that nature in 1968. In 1972, early in the campaign, we also received a, few, and then questions began to arise as to the, interpretation Of the Corrupt Practices Act and whether or not we could receive items of that, kind. So when this money was offered to me, I took it contingent upon determining that, we would accept it. And I got, an opinion of counsel shortly after, the counsel for the committee who succeeded Mr. Liddy, expressing the opinion that, we could not accept money from a foreign national. SO I arranged with -Mr. Fred LaRue to give $30,000 back to Mr. Lagdameo and his associates. Since then, and this is more irony, Senator, I have learned that the Department of Justice has held that it would have been perfectly proper to accept, a contribution from a foreign national so long as he is not an agent, of a foreign principal. But that is the source of the $30,000. Now, I had not, accepted the money on behalf of the committee. I Was holding it as his agent or in escrow, or whatever the legal term might be, to determine whether or not I could accept it on behalf of the committee. Senator MONTOYA. Did you finally get the money from, Mr. LaRue? I Mr. STANS. I got the money from Mr. LaRue, and he arranged to give it back. Senator MONTOYA. Let. me ask you this question: Did Mr. Sloan make periodic reports to you about, moneys which he would disburse? Mr. STANS. I think you are referring to disbursements in cash, are you, Senator? Senator MONTOYA. Yes. [01.04.11--TAPE OUT]
Harbor, oil well, tract homes, large farms, factories, civic center, green country, hills, LA River, freight yards, hill homes, LA Basin
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