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August 2, 1994 - Part 5
(15:40:48)(tape #10069 begins) But I think what's important here is not to make these sweeping statements about an Administration because of this one problem. Obviously, there are political reasons why there are those people who don't want us to look at the fact that we are working on a crime bill, and health reform, and all the other things that we're doing, things that have been neglected for 12 years, and I understand that, but I would say this: We know, in this particular circumstance, that there were some very good people who were really concerned that a press leak could derail the Administration from its very important agenda. And because too many people, had too many conversations, and were involved in too many meetings and in my view, using press leaks as an excuse to hold even more meet- ings. They undermined their own purpose, which was not to get off course. So that's a problem and I think everybody can learn from that. All of us in our lives. There was no criminality, no obstruction of justice, and no interference with the investigation. I think that's very important to the American people. We can learn from this, but lets not blow this up into proportions that it is not. Senator Gramm longs for the day when a Republican will take back the White House. I can understand that -from his perspective. But I would urge him, if be wants to put all this into perspective read the Haldeman diaries which I'm in the middle of reading. You want to really take a very good look at the White House, this was a diary that was kept for history, and it talked about how poli- tics and enemies lists and other things ran a White House and ran amuck, so there's something for us to learn in all of these things that occur. But they have to be put into perspective. 404 So in closing, let me say this to whoever cares, don't let press leaks or stories about press leaks run a White House or a Senate office, or a Government office. We should do our jobs for the American people, that's what we're supposed to do, and don't worry about the press. It won't be good no matter what you do. Just come to grips with that from day one. Let private counsel handle matters that happened before the President became President. Keep it separate. That's what I'm learning from all this. And, I hope the Administration is learning that and I want to thank these witnesses. You have been, I think, candid with us. This has been I look at you, I see the youth, and the loveliness difficult especially for you, Mr. Steiner, because as exuberance of youth, the exaggeration of youth, along with some of the problems of And I think you, of all people here on this panel, should talk to the guys with the gray beards and the gray hairs such as Senator Dodd. He's got gray hair. You can talk to him, too. [Laughter.] Senator BOXER. But, just because you're young doesn't mean your opinion isn't worth something, as Senator Kerry has stated. I think you showed us in this diary some of the feelings that are missing in public life today. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Senator D'Amato, anybody else on your side? Senator D'AMATO. No, Mr. Chairman, but I do think, if I might respond to my friend and colleague, formerly a Brooklynite, now a Senator from California Senator BOXER. That's why I can keep up with you. [Laughter.] Senator D'AMATO. And you go beyond. [Laughter.] Senator BOXER. That's a compliment, coming from you.
August 2, 1994 - Part 5
(15:45:20) Senator D'AMATO. I want to know that I think, without even having checked with my colleagues, we could enter into a Unanimous Consent Agreement that we agree with lour observation about the press. It doesn't matter what you do, its not going to be good. The CHAIRMAN. Anybody else seeking recognition or can we con. elude this panel and go to the next witness? Seeing no requests for time, let me thank these witnesses for their appearance and well conclude your testimony at this time and excuse you. We'll take a brief 3-minute recess here to allow Mr. Altman to come into the room and then we'll resume the Committee session. (15:46:00) [Recess.] (15:46:05) Commentary of hearings hosts DON BODE and NINA TOTENBERG
Goldberg to UN - Chosen to Succeed Adlai Stevenson
President Johnson's choice to succeed Adlai Stevenson, Justice Arthur J. Goldberg of the Supreme Court, appears at a White House press conference & comments on his call to the difficult & exacting post as Ambassador to the United Nations. Washington DC MS Justice ARTHUR J. GOLDBERG posing outside White House with wife Dorothy Goldberg and son Robert Goldberg. MS - President LYNDON BAINES JOHNSON (LBJ) speaking at outdoor press conference in Rose Garden, Goldberg s and Secretary of State DEAN RUSK standing in BG. MS Arthur J. Goldberg shaking hands with Lyndon Johnson, assuming podium. Nice MS three 16mm film cameras with obese magazines on tripods, cameramen filming. Justice Goldberg speaking, "Of Adlai Stevenson's departure & my appointment, I can only borrow words once uttered on a similar occasion by Thomas Jefferson, 'I succeed him. No one could replace him.' I am grateful to the President for judging me capable of the effort I now commence. I am grateful to the Secretary of State, my friend and my former colleague in the cabinet for welcoming me so warmly to this post. It is with great humility that I undertake the role of our nation's advocate of peace in the council of nations."
US Ships Reactivated
The Hunter's Point Division of the San Francisco, Calif., Naval Shipyard seethes with the activity of 7000 workers reactivating a number of navy units which have been in mothballed desuetude. It's a work that keeps the great yard going seven days a week and 24 hours a day. Panning high angle LS Hunter's Point naval shipyard. H/a TLS - shipyard workers on ships in dry-dock. MS two workers scraping paint off deck. MS worker testing small caliber gun mount turret. MS worker wearing protective jumpsuit & mask, using spray gun on railing. Rear view MS worker welding hull. TLS worker spraying undercoat to hull. MS man in hard hat inspecting electrical room. TLS empty dry-dock slip. Panning high angle LS shipyard.
Africa III - Eland Antelope
(Tape One) LS of two Eland walking by, zebras nearby
Africa III - Eland Antelope
(Tape One) Eland walking, seems to have a bunch of dried grass stuck up in its horns 07:13:50 Eland drinking, looks up, turns around and walks away
Africa III - Wildebeest
(Tape One) Wildebeest on a hill, walking, bending down to feed upon grass 07:15:30 Gray and black faced wildebeest standing on hill, looks towards camera 07:16:09 Two gray and black faced wildebeest standing on hill, one licks itch, uses hind leg to itch face
Africa III - Grant's Gazelle
(Tape One) Grant's gazelle thrashing a plant with horns to itch behind his ears, goes over to smell another plant, starts to rip leaves off and eat, walks
August 2, 1994 - Part 5
(15:51:30) Hearing resumes: AFTERNOON SESSION The CHAIRMAN. The Committee will come back into session and our witness this afternoon will be Mr. Roger Altman. Do you want to come on up to the table, Mr. Altman. Let me just say as you I re being seated that I know you have a statement to make and all the Members of the Committee, I believe, now have a copy of that statement before. them. Let us now, in the normal order of things, ask you to stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God. TESTIMONY OF ROGER ALTMAN, DEPUTY SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY; FORMER ACTING CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, RESOLUTION TRUST CORPORATION, WASHINGTON, DC Mr. ALTMAN. I do. The CHAIRMAN. Very good. You have a statement for us and we're going to make the full statement a part of the record. You deliver whatever part of it you want at the outset and then we'll go to questions. Mr. ALTMAN. Good afternoon. The CHAIRMAN. Incidentally, before you begin, let me just say that these mikes sometimes have been working strongly and sometimes not. I would encourage you to pull it as close to yourself as you can so you can be heard throughout the room. Thank you. Mr. ALTMAN. Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee, my name is Roger Altman. Senator SHELBY. Mr. Chairman, can he pull the mike. Thank you. Mr. ALTMAN. My name is Roger Altman. On January 21, 1993, 1 was unanimously confirmed by the Senate as Deputy Secretary of the Treasury and have served in that capacity since then. That was the second time I was unanimously confirmed to serve in the Treasury. Over the 4 years of the Carter Administration, I served as Assistant Secretary for Domestic Finance and had the privilege of working closely with this Committee at that time, especially on the Chrysler and on the New York City rescues. I feel privileged to have served in these capacities. Public service has always been an important part of my life, as it was for my parents. Over those years, and in those positions, I may have made some poor decisions or other mistakes, but my integrity has never been questioned. Now, Mr. Chairman, I read that I've already been convicted and sentenced even though the trial hasn't taken place. I hope and I believe today's process will be fairer than that. I intend to demonstrate convincingly that I conducted myself properly, and I testifi- 406 fied accurately and when I finish today, I believe reasonable Members of this Committee will reach the same conclusion. Let me address, first, the very basic issue as to whether a:% effort was made by the Treasury or White House staff to impede or alter in any way the criminal or civil processes of the RTC as they relate to Madison Guaranty. I include within that question the issue of whether any information was improperly imparted to the White House. To the best of my knowledge there was no effort on the part of any White House or Treasury staff to impede or affect in any way the- RTC investigations. Moreover, no Member of the RTC or Treasury staff to my knowledge, improperly imparted any information about Madison Guaranty to the White House. I did not do so myself and I am not aware of anyone else doing so.
August 2, 1994 - Part 5
(15:55:46) Three independent investigations have addressed these questions. First, we had the results of the legal investigation by the Independent Counsel, Mr. Fiske. All issues involved in his investigation were fully and thoroughly investigated including a review of my testimony -before this Committee. And we are all familiar with his conclusions. There was also the report of the Office of Government Ethics, which Secretary Bentsen released on Sunday. This concluded that there bad been no unethical activities on the part of any Treasury personnel, The Office of Government Ethics is an independent body. As with Mr. Fiske, it had access to all documents and took testimony under oath from all those involved, including your witnesses. There is also the report of Mr. Cutler, White House Counsel, on the question of any unethical behavior by White House staff, He concluded there was none. These investigations have confirmed that the Clinton Administration did not interfere in any aspect of the Madison Guaranty case. There is no evidence, Mr. Chairman-I repeat-no evidence that either the criminal or civil aspects were compromised, delayed, or altered in any way. Simply none. I believe that the conclusions of these three separate investigations are absolutely correct. And I ask the Committee to bear in mind the larger context of my involvement in the handling of the Madison matter by the RTC. Most importantly, I never made any decisions of any kind with respect to the Madison case. I was committed, as I told the White House staff and others, to have the RTC General Counsel, Ellen Kulka, make whatever determination was necessary with respect to any civil claims arising from Madison. My meeting with the White House staff on February 2 was cleared by both Treasury General Counsel and the Designated Treasury Ethics Officer. I obtained two written ethics opinions stating that my recusal was not required, and I recused myself from the Madison matter on February 25 without ever having made any decision in that case. Second, let me turn to what I believe is the most important issue between this Committee and me, namely my testimony before you on February 24. Mr. Chairman, I do not have perfect recall, and I may have heard or understood questions in a way that was not intended by the Senator asking the question. And if I did so, I sincerely apolologize to all Members of the Committee. But I do want to be clear. In no way did I intend to mislead or not to provide complete and 407 forthright answers. I have too much respect for this Committee, for our system of Government and for the need for full and forthright communications between the Executive and the Legislative Branches. Let me add here that I understand how a reasonable person reading my testimony and listening to all the testimony which has come before this Committee could believe I was not as forthcoming as I should have been. The burden is mine to explain that I was doing the best I could at the time and I intend to do that today. Let me turn to describing the interaction between the Clinton Administration and the RTC. First, when Mr. Casey resigned as CEO in March 1993, the Administration had only taken office 5 or 6 weeks beforehand and had not yet chosen its nominee for this position. Indeed, only two U.S. Treasury officials had even been confirmed, Secretary Bentsen and me.
August 2, 1994 - Part 5
(16:00:39) Secretary Bentsen asked me to assume this position until a permanent CEO was nominated and confirmed. As others will attest I neither sought nor wanted this assignment, but I accepted it because there was no one else. And during the discussions about my appointment, there was never any mention by anyone of Madison Guaranty. In June of last year we submitted a nomination for permanent Chairperson of the RTC. Our expectation was that he would be promptly confirmed, and I could leave the agency. Our nominee was a Republican, and an active one. He was well qualified for this position and the Administration supported his nomination throughout the congressional session, but the nomination was not taken up by the Senate. After Congress completed its work last fall, be withdrew his name from further consideration. Let me make an observation, if I may, about this situation. The Administration nominated an active Republican for the top RTC job. That is not consistent with trying to exert undue control over the agency or any of its investigations. When I became RTC Chairman, the agency was managed on a day-to- day basis by its two senior vice presidents, Bill Roelle and Lamar Kelly. Almost all members of the RTC staff reported to one or the other. These two men were appointees of Mr. Casey, who in turn had been appointed by President Bush. They were thoroughly professional and they were retained throughout all of 1993. Each then left at his own initiative to rejoin the FDIC. Retaining the two senior vice presidents whom we inherited is also not consistent with trying to exert political control over the agency. Moreover, these two individuals bad no motivation to show favoritism on Madison Guaranty, and I do not believe that they did so, During my tenure at the RTC, I was also serving as Deputy Secretary of the Treasury. In that role, I was deeply involved in policy initiatives ranging from passage of the President's economic plan to cochairing the U.S.-Japan framework negotiations. These responsibilities permitted me limited time for RTC matters. My involvement there typically related to broad public issues, like the long struggle last year to pass the RTC Completion Act. At no time, Mr. Chairman, did I ever ask to be briefed, nor was I briefed, on any investigation or the status or the outlook for any case, not once. My role was to provide general oversight at twice 408 senior staff meetings. These involved 8 to 10 RTC officials, and they were the only RTC employees with whom I ever had any personal contact of any kind. Last fall, Bill Roelle or Jean Hanson or both, advised me because of impending publicity, that the RTC was considering referring the Madison matter to the Justice Department for criminal investigation, and that the referral could mention the President and First Lady in some capacity. I had never asked to be involved in Madison son-related matters or any other RTC investigation. Indeed, until that time, I had known nothing at 11 about Madison except through the press. And, as I said. I believe they advised me because publicity was imminent. I was also advised that such referral decisions are typically made at the regional office level. I responded by saying that this referral decision should be made in exactly the same fashion as in any other case. If that meant the regional office level, then that's where the decision should be made. There were no further conversations with me on that subject. ultimately learned through the press that the case indeed had been referred to the Justice Department.
August 2, 1994 - Part 5
(16:10:50) On February 2, Jean Hanson and I went to the White House. She attended because, as Treasury's senior lawyer, she had been helping me on various RTC legal matters, and the subject matter was inherently legal. She saw nothing wrong with providing this information to the White House. I later learned that she also bad the good judgment to check the ethical issues with Dennis Foreman, Treasury's Chief Ethics Officer, who also saw nothing improper. Mr. Foreman, I might add, is a career appointee who preceded the Clinton Administration. In other words, Mr. Chairman, Treasury's General Counsel and its Senior Ethics Officer both approved this meeting. And as you know, the Office of Government Ethics has also rendered its verdict on that meeting, which is a favorable one. The meeting lasted no more than 20 minutes. Initially, Ms. HanSon and I described the generic procedures which the RTC used in this or any other case facing an expiring statute of limitations. We recited the three alternatives, following talking points which she had prepared. And this Committee, of course, has a copy of those. This was the total information provided which related to the RTC investigation of Madison, We provided no information on the status or outlook for the case. That would have been impossible because we possessed none. The Office of Government Ethics, which took testimony under oath from all participants. said in its report 410 that "nothing suggests that this part of the -meeting involved a disclosure of nonpublic information." Toward the end of the February 2 meeting, I also raised the question of recusal. And let me now address that. Mr. Chairman and Members of this Committee, the issue of recusal is a false one. Whether I recused my self or not would have had no impact on the investigation, none whatsoever. The facts are that I began thinking about recusal around February 1. And that on February 25, 1 did recuse myself. No matter came to me for decision on any case including Madison in that period. Moreover, prior to recusing myself, I was de facto recused. Deci. sions on cases never came to me at any time during my RTC tenure. And I had specifically reaffirmed to the RTC General Couns el before the February 2 meeting that she would be making all deci- sions related to Madison, not me. Indeed, I had told her that more than once, and with others present, and as you know, she testified before you to that effect. On February 2, when I informed the White House that I was thinking about recusal, I told them that it was irrelevant because the RTC General Counsel would be making all decisions on Madison, not me. The Office of Government Ethics confirms my de facto recusal. It states in its report that "recusal is just another word for nonparticipation " and I had already chosen nonparticipation. Nine days after the February 2 meeting, Congress passed a 2-year extension of the statute of limitations on Madison Guaranty9 days later. That made recusal entirely moot. My term as RTC Chairman was to expire and did expire on March 30. And with such additional time, it was almost certain that the RTC would not be making any Madison decisions by my March 30 termination date. In retrospect, I perhaps should have recused myself right off the bat. Some of this controversy would have been avoided. But before February 2, 1 had been advised that there was no legal or ethical requirement to recuse myself. I later receive two written opinions from ethics officers to that effect. Two written opinions
Golden Rainbow
Rainbow Shower
Hawaiian Showers
Pink Shower Tree
August 3, 1994 - Part 4
(14:20:36) Even so, earlier this year I recused myself both as Comptroller of the Currency, and as a director of the FDIC from any matter involving the President or Mrs. Clinton in a personal capacity, including Whitewater and Madison, Beyond what any American can read in the newspapers, I have no knowledge of Whitewater or Madison. Despite my lack of involvement in these matters, I have had contacts with the White House or the Treasury relating to Whitewater or Madison on three occasions. I described all three in my memorandum to Mr. Edward Knight, Executive Secretary to the Sec(61) 62 retary of the Treasury, dated March 11, 1994. 1 prepared that memorandum in response to the Grand Jury subpoena to the Treasury Department from the Off- ice of Independent Counsel, Mr. Fiske. Treasury Department has provided a copy of it to the the Committee I am happy to go through these events again with you here today. The first of the three occasions I described in my memorandum involved two Freedom of Information Act requests relating to Madison or Whitewater. Reporters at The Washington Post and The Baltimore Sun submitted these requests to the FDIC. Somebody at the FDIC sent copies of the requests to me. I'm uncertain about who sent them. I think it may have been the Acting Chairman of the FDIC, Skip Hove. These were public documents. Upon receiving copies of the inquiries, I faxed copies to Under secretary of the Treasury, Frank Newman, Treasury, Chief of Staff Josh Steiner, and Bruce Lindsey and David Dreyer in the White House press office, on December 2, 1993. To the best of my recollection, I did this because I thought they might want to know about press interest in these matters. I knew no more than I had read in the newspapers about the matters referred to in the FOIA requests. I never asked anybody to send this material to me. Nobody at the Treasury Department or the White House asked me to send it to them. I never asked about these matters. And, to the best of my recollection, I never discussed these FOIA requests with anybody at the White House or the Treasury, either before or after I sent out the copies. The second occasion occurred during the week between Christmas and New Year's 1993, at the Renaissance Weekend conference. The Renaissance Weekend is a series of symposia and presentations on topics ranging from international relations, economics and business to the arts, Hundreds of people attend. I was sitting in a large seminar listening to a presentation; I think it had something to do with international relations. The President entered the room and sat down near me at the table. Because I know that what happened next is of interest to this Committee, I've tried hard to remember it as accurately as I can. As I recall, the President was reading a newspaper, and we were commenting to each other on and off about the seminar. At one point, the President said something to the effect that he could not understand all the fuss about Whitewater. He expressed the belief he had done nothing wrong, and he indicated he had lost money on the transaction. He then asked me whether I thought I could advise him. I do not recall responding specifically. Our conversation moved on and shortly thereafter, the President left the room. I assumed we would touch base with regard to his question later during the Renaissance Weekend. Our entire exchange relating to Whitewater lasted perhaps 30 seconds.
August 3, 1994 - Part 4
(14:26:10) Let me make two points about the President's question because press reports may have created some confusion. First, my recollection is not that the President asked me to advise him. My recollection is that he asked me whether I thought I could advise him, that is, whether it would be permissible to give him advice. It was clear to me that the President did not expect and did not want me to do anything inappropriate or improper. 63 Second, some press accounts suggest that the President and I remember our conversation differently. I do not remember exactly what he said that gave me this impression, but I understood the President to be asking whether I could properly provide advice related to financial institutions regulation. The President and White House Counsel Cutler have recently said that the President's interest was narrower, that he only wanted names of people who might comment publicly on these matters. That is not what I understood, but it may well have been what the President intended. Our exchange on this point was brief, perhaps 30 seconds. It took place in a noisy room with many distractions. We could easily have miscommunicated. After the seminar, I went back to my hotel room. I was not sure how to followup on the President's question. I had not followed Whitewater closely in the newspapers, and I did not know much about it, Because he is the President, I wanted to be responsive to him. But having practiced law in Washington for 20 years, I understood the importance of being cautious and careful in responding to such an inquiry. I felt I needed some basic information about the subject. I also wanted to get the sense of others about whether it would be appropriate for me to advise the President on this subject. I wanted to give a well-founded and reasoned answer. My first call was to Josh Steiner at the Treasury Department. As best I can recall, I called him just as a starting point-somebody who could point me in the direction of the right people to speak with about these matters. I think I was also trying to figure out how to reach Jean Hanson, the General Counsel of the Treasury Department. My conversation with Mr. Steiner was extremely brief As best I remember, Mr. Steiner just suggested that I speak to Ms. Hanson. I reached Jean Hanson and had another brief conversation. I told her, as I told others I spoke with later, that I did not want information that was not public. I do not remember exactly what Ms. Hanson said, but I understood from her that the Whitewater matter involved a personal loan of the Clintons, I came away with the impression she did not know much about it. I also recall that she seemed to have reservations about the idea of my providing advice to the President. She suggested that I talk to White House Counsel Bernard Nussbaum.
Flowering Trees
Poinciana & Hotel
Flowering Trees
House on Hill
Flowering Trees
Poincianas down long street
Flowering Trees
Poincianas ***
Flowering Trees
Royal Hawaiian Hotel ***and Poinciana
Flowering Trees
Orange Poinciana **some leaves, small sky
Flowering Trees
Poincianas down narrow street ***
Flowering Trees
Orange-red Poinciana ***