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July 19, 1995 - Part 2
(11:35:39) Mr. HUBBELL. No, and Phil, on purpose, kept me out of it. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Which gets to the next question. Senator Shelby, in his questioning, talked about an agreement between Mr. Heymann and Mr. Nussbaum. Were you aware of any such agreement? Mr. HUBBELL. I was only aware when I returned and Phil had said they had reached an agreement and that had changed. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. I'm sorry, and then what? Mr. HUBBELL. Then it had changed when they got there. But I had nothing to do with the agreement, don't know what the agreement was. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. That was going to be my next question. Were you advised of what the agreement was and what the scope of it was? Mr. HUBBELL, Phil may have said in general terms what he thought was going to happen or what the agreement was, but I really don't recall. I know Phil would. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. The Park Police had advised you and others that this was an apparent suicide, Is it your impression that everyone who was involved with this matter at the outset had concurred or believed that this was a suicide? III Mr. HUBBELL. Yes, I believe the Park Policeman told me that that night, and when we met with the Park Police the next morning, they made it very clear that it was a suicide. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Was there any basis for questioning the Park Police's description of a suicide? Mr. HUBBELL. No. I asked several questions that morning because I still couldn't believe it. If you knew Vince Foster, it was hard to believe, but after they went through what they discovered they said, Mr. Hubbell, this was a suicide, there's no doubt in our mind. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. In your opinion, would the events following July 20, would those events have been different if it had been a homicide or if the Park Police had advised that it was a homicide instead of a suicide involved? Mr. HUBBELL. I would have to believe they would be. I don't know exactly what the difference would be. I guess it depends on the circumstances, but I suspect that it would be. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. In any event, with regard to the handling of information in Mr. Foster's office, that would not have been in the normal course of a suicide investigation. You had no legal responsibility, no ethical responsibility to get involved with trying to secure that off-ice or anything in it based on what the Park Police had told you? Mr. HUBBELL. That's correct, Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. So your interest in securing the office, the conversation the next day, was just based on an abundance of caution and because of your friendship? Mr. HUBBELL. That's correct. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. I have no further questions. Thank you. The CHAIRMAN. Has the Senator completed her inquiry? Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. I have no further questions. Thank you. The CHAIRMAN, Senator Bennett. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR ROBERT F. BENNETT Senator BENNETT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Hubbell, I've tried to take careful notes of some of the things you've said. Let me review them so that we can be sure I'm not misrepresenting your position and I'm going to ask you some questions that I think you do know the answer to, compared to those that have tried to get you to get into somebody else's mind. I have written down you made the point that the files of the White House Counsel were in Vince Foster's office. In effect, they were Bernie Nussbaum's files every bit as much as they were Vince Foster's files. Do I have that right? Mr. HUBBELL. I believe that is correct. I believe they belong to the White House Counsel. Senator BENNETT. You made the comment that in an investigation of this matter, that it's perfectly appropriate that someone with the stature of the White House Counsel should be the one to go in the office and investigate that. Do I have that right? Mr. HUBBELL. I did say that. 112 Senator BENNETT. This was not your comment, but it's in the same vein as what the Senator from Massachusetts asked you about, whether or not the police should be allowed to "roam willynilly," his phrase, through an office and you fsaid no, you didn't think that that would be appropriate. Do I Mr. HUBBELL. I said that, yes.
Strato Hoppers Near Try
Jumpy a little blurry dull in contrast and imagery Officers who will risk their lives in the forthcoming National Geographic army ascension into the upper reaches of the stratosphere, install their huge gondola and equipment in moonlight valley from which they will take off.
July 19, 1995 - Part 2
(11:40:10) Senator BENNETT. Did I characterize that correctly? All right. Ili the background, then, of those statements, let me read to you from Mr. Nussbaum's deposition what happened that night, You've said, appropriately, you weren't there, you were, as you've indicated to Senator Moseley-Braun, with the family, but this is what happened. there that night, according to Mr. Nussbaum. Picking up on page 33 of his deposition, and I will not read everybit of it, but I believe I've got the essence of it. I decided to go to my office to call members of my staff to try to reach some people to let them know what happened before the news became widespread. I recall walking from the residence directly to my office, The door was open. As I walked into the suite, I noticed a light on in Foster's office, and I turned to walk into Foster's office, seeing the light, and I saw Maggie Williams and Patsy Thomasson. Question: What were they doing? Answer: Maggie was sitting on a sofa crying and Patsy was sitting behind Vince's desk. Question: Doing what? Answer: Looking at the top of the desk. I said, what are you doing here, and Patsy said- Maggie didn't say anything-Patsy said, I'm looking to see if he left a note. I said, that occurred to me also on the way over, which it did. Indeed, I was going to go in and look for a note. I said, well, actually, that occurred to me, too, and Patsy also said-1 said we just arrived. We're looking for a note. We just arrived. I'm looking for a note, I said, well, that occurred to me also, and I went over to stand next to her, and we looked on top of the desk, and we looked around, just sort of eyeballing the room. We opened a number of drawers in the desk. We saw nothing. There were a lot of papers on his desk and it ended. It concluded. That cursory search for the note ended, We were looking for something obvious. At least I was looking for something obvious, a letter on the desk to whom it may concern, designed to be found. We didn't see anything there. We chatted briefly about what a tragedy it was, and we got up and left together. That's Mr. Nussbaum's description of what happened that night. This is an office where there are files of the White House Counsel. Someone of the stature of the White House Counsel is someone you suggest should be the one to be searching, the police should not be allowed to roam willy-nilly through that office, yet Mr. Nussbaum shows up and it never occurs to him to even suggest there's anything wrong with Patsy Thomasson sitting behind Mr. Foster's desk looking at the papers on his desk and ultimately opening the drawers in his desk. Now, the question I have for you in that circumstance, and I think you are qualified to answer it, perhaps better than anybody, is who is Patsy Thomasson? Why would her presence be accepted by the White House Counsel as a normal matter of course in this circumstance that it would never occur to him to even ask Why she's there, other than to accept her statement she's there to look for a note, and he says I'll look with you, and together they go through the drawers of the desk of a man that, in your phrase, has the files of the White House Counsel in it? It's extraordinary to me that the White House Counsel accepted her presence in this fashion, but I don't know who she is. I don't know what her relationship to this thing is. You have the background with her in the cam- 113 paign. You had the background with her in this circumstance. Can you tell the Committee who Patsy Thomasson is? Mr. HUBBELL. I know some parts of Patsy's background. I know she worked in the campaign. I know she was the Chairman of the Arkansas Highway Commission. I know she had worked for several Senators and Governors, and I know she worked in the campaign in the transition and was an Assistant to the President of the United, States and the Chief Deputy to David Watkins, who was in charge of the building itself and getting the light bulbs changed, so to speak, Senator BENNETT. Did she have a White House pass at the time she did this? Obviously she had a White House pass. Did she have a security clearance? Mr. HUBBELL. I do not know. Somebody said she did not. I did not know that. Senator BENNETT. You said she worked in the campaign. What did she do in the campaign? Mr. HUBBELL, I think she worked for David in running the administration of the campaign, but I'm not sure. I did not have any dealings with Patsy during the campaign. I worked with others. Senator BENNETT. So I was wrong in assuming you could shed some light. The Arkansas Highway Department doesn't help a whole lot in this context. Why would she be the logical first person to be in Vince Foster's office? Can you help us at all?
1958 - Gothic Church Exterior
Gothic Church Exterior. Exterior of Church with Gothic, Medieval, Middle-Ages, European style architecture; arches; pillars; stonework; stone; molding; moss; courtyard.
Huge Death Toll In Unprecedented Mid-West Floods
Jumpy dull in contrast and imagery Dozens of persons are dead and countless others missing as a tornado rips through the district followed by torrential floods, wrecking buildings and communication lines. At Colorado Springs, Colo., Heavy spring rains bring death and destruction.
July 19, 1995 - Part 2
(11:45:35) Mr. HUBBELL. It would be pure speculation, since she was David's Chief Deputy, that David may have called and said would you go look and see if there's a note on top of his desk. I don't know if that occurred. I don't have any idea, but I would think that she would be the one that David would call if David was going to give her any instruction, but I don't know what David did. Senator BENNETT. So she was a member of the White House staff at this time? Mr. HUBBELL. Oh, yes. I believe she was David's Chief Assistant. Senator BENNETT. We will undoubtedly-we're going to have her there and we'll ask her that status, but I was hoping with your acquaintance with her during the campaign, you could shed some light on who she is. Mr. HUBBELL. Very smart lady. Senator BENNETT. All right. I'll accept that, but you haven't real- helped very much to help us understand why she would be there and why the White House Counsel would accept her presence there as a clear matter of course not even to be questioned. Mr. HUBBELL. I really can't help you. I'm sorry, Senator. Senator BENNETT. I see. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll yield. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Faircloth, Senator Bennett is yielding some of his time to you. You may start your line of questioning, and then we'll move on. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR LAUCH FAIRCLOTH Senator FAIRCLOTH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Hubbell, when you left the Justice Department, you went to work for Michael Cardoza, a Washington attorney. Is this the same Michael Cardoza that's also the principal attorney in charge of raise money for President Clinton's legal defense fund set up to de 114 fend himself from allegations of wrongdoing in the Whitewater. scandal? Mr. HUBBELL. Senator, I don't mean to split hairs with you, but I didn't work for Michael, Michael lent me an office after I left the, ,Justice Department. Michael is, I believe, one of the trustees of the Clinton Defense Fund, but--I'm not trying to split hairs, but I didn't work for G. William Miller & Company. They lent me an office Senator FAIRCLOTH. So you did not raise money for President:, Clinton's legal defense fund. Mr. HUBBELL. No, I did not. Senator FAIRCLOTH. On the weekend before Mr, Foster died, did you go and stay with Michael Cardoza on the Eastern Shore of Maryland? Mr. HUBBELL. Yes, I did. Senator FAIRCLOTH. Was this trip planned several months in ad- or is it something that came up at the spur of the moment? Mr. HUBBELL. Michael and his wife Carolyn invited my wife and myself to come to the Eastern Shore that weekend and it had been planned for several weeks before that. When I got back from a trip, Vince and I were supposed to have dinner Friday night. Vince told me that he had decided to get away and that he and Lisa were going to the Eastern Shore to stay-they had rented a hotel room on the Eastern Shore. On Saturday when we got to Michael and Carolyn's house, we told Carolyn that Vince and Lisa were somewhere on the Eastern Shore. We located them, and Carolyn invited them to come over and play tennis and swim and have dinner with us, and they did. They went back to the place they were staying and then came back to Michael and Carolyn's on Sunday, and we played, played tennis and swam and ate crab. The CHAIRMAN. Senator, I don't mean to interrupt you, but I would like to get to Senator Murray, and then we'll come back to you for your full 10 minutes. I defer to Senator Murray. Senator SARBANES. Senator, I might just make the observation that the Eastern Shore of Maryland is a very restful place to visit. Mr. HUBBELL. Sure was, Senator. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR PATTY MURRAY Senator MURRAY. Thank you, Mr, Chairman. Senator Moseley-Braun talked with you about how you heard about the suicide, going to the home, what occurred there, and the aura present there. Would it be fair to say that your principal concern on the night of July 20, 1993 was taking care of Mrs. Foster? Mr. HUBBELL. Absolutely. Her and Sheila and the children. Senator MURRAY. At some point were you aware the Park Police were there to interview Mrs. Foster? Mr. HUBBELL. At some point the Park Police said they would like to stay if it was OK, and that they would like, if possible, if Lisa was up to it, to ask her a few questions. Senator MURRAY. Were they in uniform or plainclothes? Mr. HUBBELL. I really don't remember. 115
Water Birds - Mallard Duck
(Tape 1) 00:05:14 Mallard duck flock flys
Water Birds - Canadian Geese
(Tape 1) 02:34:06 Canada geese flying in V-formation
Crowds at Haigh Asbury????(S.F.)
San Francisco
ON PREVIEW CASSETTE #98496 Crowds at Haight Ashbury San Francisco (similar to what's at the end of the transfer of 539-1 on master 2) Movie set, including shots of nice vintage cars, helicopters flying, BEN GAZZARA, old film cameras, cameraman with camera on a crane, Bay shots with ships
City at night - China Town
China Town (kids only)
Fisherman fishing
Fisherman's Wharf (S.F. night)
High building
"In One Day"
"Night club orchestra"
On Preview Cassette #92001 Has been transferred to Master 1016. Film original is stored near "Killing Floor"
Has been transferred to Master 1016. Film original is stored near "Killing Floor".
San Francisco
San Francisco
San Francisco - Cable Car
San Francisco -
San Francisco Palace