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August 4, 1994 - Part 7
(16:05:49) As I have said publicly in the past, I did blow off steam in that conversation, based on my belief that Mr. Stephens had and has a conflict of interest, that he could not be an impartial investigator. Mr. Steiner informed me that the decision had been made by an independent board. That ended the conversation. I took no further action. I believe later that day I had a conversation with Harold Ickes and Roger Altman during which the subject of his recusal was discussed, specifically, as I recall, that he had informed a New York Times editor that he had decided to recuse himself. I was concerned that because of the manner in which he had chosen to announce his decision, the Administration would, for a time, be maintaining inconsistent public positions on this issue. I suggested that, as a courtesy to the President, Mr. Altman write a personal note explaining his decision. I took no further action concerning this issue. Thank you very much. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Podesta, why don't you give us your statement now. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Mr. Stephanopoulos. JOHN D. PODESTA, ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT AND WHITE HOUSE STAFF SECRETARY, WASHINGTON, DC Mr. PODESTA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee, my name is John Podesta. I am an Assistant to the President and White House Staff Secretary, a position I have held since inauguration day, January 20, 1993. My principal duties involve managing the paper flow going to and from the President. Earlier in my career, I spent more than 9 years on the staff of two Senate Committees-as Counsel to the Judiciary Committee and for more than a year as Chief Counsel to the Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition and Forestry. As a result of my Capitol Hill experience, I have from time to time been asked at the White 361 House to work on legislative and congressional matters. It is in this context that my connection to the matter before this Committee took place. On or perhaps just before February 14, 1994, 1 was asked by Mack McLarty and Pat Griffin, the Director of White House Legislative Affairs, to work on upcoming hearings involving RTC matters. Mr. Griffin bad recently joined the White House staff and was concentrating his time and attention on passage of the President's legislative program, principally Health Care reform. In anticipation of upcoming RTC Oversight Board hearings, we expected questions on Madison Guaranty to be raised. My task, as I saw it, was to analyze what was likely to take place at the hearings and to recommend ways to ensure that the hearings were fair and balanced. This assignment was in addition to my regular duties, and did not consume the majority of my time. As best as I can recall, this is a summary of what occurred over the following days. On February 15, 1 met with Mike Levy, Assistant Secretary of the Treasury, and discussed the expected RTC Oversight Board hearing in the Senate Banking Committee. Mr. Levy briefed me on the composition and functions of the RTC Oversight Board. During the remainder of that week, Mr. Levy and I had several telephone conversations concerning the hearing. We never discussed the underlying investigation of Madison, nor did I discuss that subject with anyone else at Treasury or the RTC. Mr. Levy and I did briefly discuss the fact that Roger Altman would need to be prepared to answer questions about recusal in light of the fact that Ricki Tigert, our nominee to chair the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, had been pressured on recusal during her confirmation hearings. I did not, try in any way to influence the substance of Mr. Altman's answer on the subject of recusal. My discussion with Mr. Levy only went to the fact that Mr. Altman needed to be prepared to respond to questions on this subject. In the several days before the hearing, I also spoke by telephone on two or three occasions to Josh Steiner, Secretary Bentsen's Chief of Staff. At this time it is difficult for me to separate these conversations or to remember them with precision. I believe I initiated the first call to ask Mr. Steiner to encourage Secretary Bentsen to take a prominent role at the hearing. Again, this was to ensure that the hearing was broadly focused on our Administration's overall handling of the S&L cleanup and to contrast that record with the record of previous Administrations. About this time I became aware that Mr. Altman had met on February 2 with White House staff. I believe I raised with Mr. Steiner the fact that Mr. Altman probably would be asked a question about whether he had consulted with the White House on the Madison matter, and that he needed to be able to discuss the February 2 meeting in response to such a question. I did not try to influence the substance of Mr. Altman's response. Before the hearing, Mr. Steiner also told me that Mr. Altman planned to put in his opening statement the fact that he intended to leave the RTC when Vacancy Act term expired at the end of March.
The Cuban Crisis
Same as catalog #520372 The Cuban Crisis The United States' answer to what Adlai Stevenson calls in the United Nations: "Soviet Blackmail" is a quarantine of all offensive weapons being shipped from Russia to the island fortress. The U.S. throws up a steel fence, prepared to stop any vessel carrying materials of war. Adlai Stevenson speaking to United Nations (natural audio of speech). Aerial views of ships at sea, battleships, aircraft carriers, etc. In Cuba itself 100,000 men are on emergency orders as they have been during past invasion scares. The waterfront in Havana and along other parts of the coast bristle with gun emplacements as the Cuban regime waits to see what their Kremlin bosses were to do. Cuban soldiers in streets. Patriotic rallies, women carry signs. Fidel Castro seen at rally. The United States arrived at the decision after studying reconnaissance photographs made with high-powered cameras (surveillance ?). Men assemble large camera onto plane, and clean lens. Aerial of plane in flight. Interior shot of camera operator. Photos of missile site and surface to air missile depot. In the greatest display of hemisphere solidarity since World War II the OAS unanimously endorses the actions of the United States. Cuba is absent, empty chair. Sec. of State Dean Rusk ? Meanwhile, the U.S. continues to reinforce its Cuban base at Guantanamo Bay. Air force plane on tarmac, marines exit plane carrying duffle bags. Marines lined up for group photo. Pan down United Nations building. The United States goes to the UN Security Council for a resolution calling for a withdrawal of all offensive weapons from Cuba after President Kennedy refuses to withdraw our arms blockade before the bases are demolished. Adlai Stevenson speaking to United Nations.
1981 Highlights NASA
This video presentation covers Shuttle flights 1 and 2, Spacelab, mobile workstation, Voyager 2 Saturn, Infrared Astronomy Satellite, Hubble Space Telescope, Kuiper Airborne Observatory, High Altitude Earth Survey, Landsat, aerodynamic research, electric cars, wind energy, XV - 15, Quiet Shorthaul Research Aircraft, X -14 BVTOL, 40 x 80 Wind Tunnel, and turboprop research. (playing time 14 minutes, 30 sec. Dec. 1981)
August 4, 1994 - Part 7
(16:10:38) In the several days following Mr. Altman's February 24 testimony, I spoke to Mr. Steiner on three or four occasions. On February 25, Mr. Steiner told me that Mr. Altman had recused himself 362 from Madison matters. Mr. Steiner also told me about the procedures the RTC went through in hiring Jay Stephens, the former Republican U.S. Attorney, to pursue RTC civil claims arising out of the Madison failure. Finally, following a meeting on March I at the White House at which Mr. Nussbaum, Mr. Klein, Mr. Eggleston, Mr. Sloan, Mr, Lindsey, and I discussed Mr. Altman's testimony, I spoke with Mr. Altman about the possible need to supplement his testimony oil three points-first, how the February 2nd meeting was arranged; second, the fact that the recusal was discussed at the February 2nd meeting; and third, whether anyone from the RTC had advised the White House of the criminal referrals involving Madison. Mr. Altman and I had what in my view was a constructive con- versation on the three points, which resulted the next day in Mr' Altman's letter supplementing the record concerning the fall meetings. Mr. Altman later sent a letter on the recusal point. I had no subsequent conversations with Treasury or RTC personnel that related in any way to Madison Guaranty. That concludes my prepared remarks and I look forward to an-. swering your questions. The CHAIRMAN. Let me pick up right where you left off. The discussion you had on the phone with Mr. Altman where you made the three points as to omissions in his testimony that he was going to have to fill in, what was the date of that? Mr. PODESTA. March 1. The CHAIRMAN. Did I understand you to say that you mentioned recusal as one of the three items? Mr. PODESTA. I did. The CHAIRMAN. Are you surprised, in his letter of March 2 that he sent to us, that recusal is not mentioned there? Or on March 3? There's another letter that follows. Mr. PODESTA. Mr. Chairman, I think I need to give you something of a long answer to that, if you'll bear with me. It really, I think, needs to be answered in the context of all three points. I mentioned The CHAIRMAN. I'm going to let you do that, but I want to make sure that I've established the predicate for the question that I want you to respond to. Mr. PODESTA. I understand. The CHAIRMAN. I want to be clear in my mind when you had the conversation with Mr. Altman and you mentioned these items, that one of them was the recusal issue. This happened on Mr. PODESTA. March 1. The CHAIRMAN. On March 1. Mr. PODESTA. Let me give you a short-winded answer and then I can give you a long-winded one. Of the three points we discussed, these had been the subject of a meeting, as I mentioned, between four members of the Counsel's Office and Mr. Lindsey and I through the course of the afternoon on March 1st. When I talked to Mr. Altman, I think that those of us on the White House side viewed those three issues somewhat differently. With regard to the first question about how the meeting had been arranged, it was Mr. Nussbaum, I think, who was particularly concerned that Mr. 363 Altman had said that he had asked for a meeting with Mr. Nussbaum. And I think the testimony has shown that he believed that he called Mr. McLarty to set up the meeting, but then asked for Mr. Nussbaum to attend. I think all of us in the White House, with perhaps the exception of Mr. Nussbaum himself, felt that was a matter that would probably not need to be supplemented. It didn't seem, in our view, to be something the Committee would be particularly concerned about or that there would be a strong press reaction to. The CHAIRMAN. Let me do this. I'm going to give you Mr. PODESTA. I'm going to rank these. The CHAIRMAN, I just want to talk about recusal right now. I'd like to leave the other two aside because I want to pose a question to another witness here on this point. Mr. PODESTA. On the recusal point, I think it was our view that the better course was to supplement the testimony and mention recusal, but that it was a judgment call that should be left to Mr. Altman on that point. The CHAIRMAN. The main point I want to establish here is that you flagged that for him on March 1st, and you have no doubt in your mind about that. Mr. PODESTA. I have no doubt in my mind about that. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Ickes, in the meeting on February 2nd, yesterday Mr. Eggleston estimated that he thought about half the meeting was spent on the recusal issue. What would be your recollection on what percentage of the time of the meeting would have been spent on the recusal issue? Mr, ICKES. Senator, as I sit here today, it's my best recollection that probably three-quarters of the meeting was spent on the statute of limitation, the balance on recusal. The CHAIRMAN. When I look at your handwritten notes, which have been transcribed and printed on a piece of paper, you have that, I assume? Mr. ICKES. I have that if you'll bear with me a moment, Yes, I have it, The CHAIRMAN. In going through your transcription of notes, I don't find anything about recusal. Can you tell me why that is?
August 4, 1994 - Part 7
(16:15:40) Mr. ICKES. I can't explain why not. As I say, I think-my recollection is that it came up at the latter part of the meeting, not that much time was spent on it, Senator. The bulk of the meeting was spent on the issue of the statute of limitations. The CHAIRMAN. Wouldn't it be reasonable though, the fact that it did come up and there was some discussion about it and different points of view, you would expect that it would show up on your notes as what happened at the meeting? Mr. ICKES. One might think so, but it's not-it's not-I don't think it's inexplicable that I didn't put it down there. As I say, it was a matter that came up toward the last of the meeting. I don't recall much time being spent on it. The CHAIRMAN. On page 7 of your testimony, you say here toward the end of the February 2nd meeting, Mr. Altman also stated that he was considering recusing himself from the Madison matter. Can you remember how he said it? What did he say? 364 Mr. ICKES. As I recall, Senator, toward the end of that meeting, he indicated he was giving consideration whether to recuse himself or not and there ensued, I don't think a very long- The CHAIRMAN. Before we go to what followed, I want to try to get as clear a memory as you have as to what he would have said Mr. ICKES. I can't-as I've said, Senator, before the Senate coun- sels and in other situations in connection with these hearings, don't have an exact recollection word for word. I recall the gist 0 it was that he said toward the end of the meeting that he was con sidering recusing himself. The CHAIRMAN. Now, he's testified to us here that he had reached the decision to recuse himself before this meeting. Therefore, the presumption is that he came in and said that to all of you that were gathered at that meeting, that he had reached the judgment to recuse himself. Are you saying that he did not say that? Mr. ICKES. It is my best recollection, as I sit here today, Senator, that I do not recall him saying that he had decided to recuse himself, I recall that he was considering recusing himself, The CHAIRMAN. Let me just read to you what was on his briefing sheet that he had and had gone over before he went in, and I will read the text, "I have decided that I will recuse myself from the decisionmaking process as interim CEO of the RTC because of my relationship with the President and Mrs. Clinton." This document supports his recollection of his decision, and his preparation and intention to go in and to say that. You say that when he got there, he did not say that. Mr. ICKES. I can only give you my best recollection, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. Now, after he said whatever precisely it was that he said about recusal, did he then, did he put it in a form where he said I'd like your opinion? Mr. ICKES. As I said, Senator, I don't recall word for word. There was some discussion that followed his statement that he was considering recusal. The CHAIRMAN. Here's my point, and I think you will understand where I'm going here. I'm wondering if he made the comment in a form in which he was, in a sense, putting you on notice, or whether he made the comment from the point of view saying, I'm thinking about this and now I'd really like your opinion on it so let me hear from all of you as to what your reaction is. Mr. ICKES. I don't recall him putting that, certainly not in the latter form. He stated, as I recall, the gist of it was that he was thinking about recusal, and there was some discussion following that statement. The CHAIRMAN. I'm going to run out of time, but the interesting part of this is the discussion that then follows. Who said what an in what order and in what manner, So I'd like you, before my time expires, to tell me who was the first person that responded insofar as you can recall? Mr. ICKES. Senator, this happened a long time ago. A lot Of things have happened in between that. I have a very busy schedule, as do you all. Much has merged from what has been discussed in the press and otherwise. I cannot recall the specifics of who spoke first, who spoke second, nor word for word what they said. I can only give you the gist. 365 The CHAIRMAN. I would expect that type of answer, frankly, I think for most of us, What did Mr. Nussbaum say? Mr. ICKES. As I recall, Mr. Nussbaum, as did I, as did others, asked what the basis for his thinking that he might want to recuse himself, and as I recall, Mr. Altman basically said that he felt that he had a-not that he felt that he did, in fact, have a very long friendship with the Clintons, with both the President and Mrs. Clinton, and thought that that might be a basis for recusing himself, but it is my very distinct recollection, Senator, that he had not yet decided. It is also my very distinct recollection that all par-ties at that meeting said that it is up to him to decide whether or not to decide whether he would recuse himself.
August 4, 1994 - Part 7
(16:20:40) The CHAIRMAN. I'm going to yield right now with just this one question. Did anybody speak up and support his intention to recuse himself? Mr. ICKES. Again, Senator, I don't recall any---- The CHAIRMAN. There were three other people there. There were three people, as I understand it; Nussbaum, Williams, yourself and Eggleston. That's the universe of people. Did anybody-you've said what you said. I think you said what Nussbaum said. Ms. Williams just testified that she thought it was not a good idea and so stated in the meeting. I can't, out of that group, find anybody who would have said yes, we agree with your decision. Mr. ICKES. First of all, Senator, I don't think that there had been a decision to agree with, number one. Number two is it is my very distinct recollection that everyone said there were different views given, but everyone said at bottom, Roger, it's up to you to decide whether or not you're going to recuse yourself. The CHAIRMAN. We can come back to that. Senator D'Amato. Senator D'AMATO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Stephanopoulos, Josh Steiner, in his diary, recalls-it says Roger Altman decided to recuse himself Harold and George then called to say that BC," Bill Clinton, "was furious." Do you recall saying that? Do you deny saying that? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Well, first of all, to the best of my recollection, Mr. Steiner was not on that phone call. That was a phone call to Mr. Altman, I believe, so I don't know why he wrote that in his diary. I would also add Senator DAMATO. I'm asking, do you deny it? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I certainly don't remember saying that. Senator D'AMATO. Do you deny saying that? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Again, I don't believe I said-I know at the time I had not spoken to the President about this matter. Senator D'AMATO. Do you deny making that statement? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I simply can't deny what I don't remember. I have no recollection of that at all, Senator D'AMATO. You have no recollection-here's Roger Altman He's saying-and he's obviously indicated that Josh Steiner, at one time, I think, was his assistant; is that correct? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. He may have been at one time. At the time of this conversation he was Chief of Staff of the Treasury Department. 366 Senator D'AMATO. I understand that one time he was the assistant to Mr. Altman; is that true? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Yes, I believe he was. Senator DAMATO. And his notes say very specifically "Harold and George then called to say"--and this is Roger Altman after he decided to recuse himself to say that---"Bill Clinton was furious." Do you deny making that statement? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I simply don't remember saying that at all, sir. Senator D'AMATO. You don't remember. You don't remember making that statement or you don't remember? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I don't remember saying that statement. It's highly unlikely that I made that statement because I had not spoken to the President that day about this. Senator D'AMATO. Let me continue. "They also asked how Jay Stephens, the former U.S. Attorney, had been hired to be Outside Counsel on this case. Simply outrageous that the RTC had hired him, but even more amazing, even more amazing when George then suggested to me that we needed to find a way to get rid of him." Now, did you make that statement? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. As I said, Senator, in that phone call, I asked how Jay Stephens came to be hired. Senator DAMATO. Now, this is, a phone call that you made to who? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. This is a phone call to Josh Steiner, I'm not certain who called whom. Senator D'AMATO. Now, you're talking to Josh Steiner. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. This is a phone call with Josh Steiner. Senator D'AMATO. And he says even more amazing Senator SARBANES. Would you yield so I can be clear on one thing? Senator D'AMATO. Certainly. Senator SARBANES. The reference that the President was furious, which is in Steiner's diary, which came-according to Steiner, was in a conversation with Altman that you all had. You don't remember that, but it's that conversation; is that right? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I know I had two phone conversations that day, Senator. I don't know what he's referring to in the diary. I can't speak to that. I know that in the conversation with Mr. Altman, I did suggest to Altman that as a courtesy to the President, he write the President a note explaining his decision about the manner of the recusal. Senator SARBANES. But this conversation now Senator D'AMATO. The direct one. Senator SARBANES [continuing]. Is a direct one between you and Steiner. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Yes, there were two separate conversations. Senator SARBANES. I just wanted to be clear about that. Senator D'AMATO. So now we're focusing-my question goes to your conversation with Josh Steiner.
August 4, 1994 - Part 7
(16:25:35) Senator DAMATO. He says that "even more amazing." In other words, you had expressed your concern that Jay Stephens was hired. Apparently he agreed because he says "simply outrageous," and he said, "but even more amazing is when George then suggested to me that we needed to find a way to get rid of him." Do you deny making that statement? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I don't remember making that statement. As I said, Senator, in the phone conversation, I asked how Mr. Stephens came to be hired. I did believe it was a conflict of interest, and I did blow off steam. Senator DAMATO. I understand that, but that's not my question. My question is, do you deny making that question, yes or no? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. That's not the way I remember the conversation, Senator. Senator DAMATO. So the answer is no. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. That's not the way I remember the conversation. Senator DAMATO. Let me try again. This is a conversation that ou had with Mr. Steiner relative, number one, to Mr. Stephens being hired. And second, he says more amazing, when George then suggested to me that we needed to find a way to get rid of him, he goes on because you and Mr. Steiner are confidants; is that true? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. We're friendly. Senator D'AMATO. Friendly. You worked together over the years. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. At different times over the years, yes. Senator D'AMATO. "Persuaded George that firing him would be"--listen to this-"incredibly stupid and improper." Now, my question is, do you deny making the statement that we needed to find a way to get rid of him, "him" being Mr. Stephens? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. In the conversation I asked how Jay Stephens came to be hired Senator D'AMATO. I understand that. That came up before. Did you or did you not say to him that we have to find a way to get rid of him? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I have no memory of saying that, Senator. Senator DAMATO. You have no memory. Did he tell you that it would be "incredibly stupid and improper"? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Mr. Steiner told me that Mr. Stephens had been chosen by an independent board and that was the end of the conversation. Senator D'AMATO. That's not the question. Did he tell you that it would be stupid to fire Mr. Stephens? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I don't remember that at all, sir. Senator DAMATO. OK Mr. Ickes, reading your testimony in a sworn deposition that you've given to this Committee, I'm going to quote, and this is relative to the meeting on February 2nd, "I, among others, asked him"-"him" being Roger Altman---"a number of questions about the details of the statute of limitations and to some extent the progress of the inquiry being conducted by the RTC." Is that your testimony and is it true? Mr. ICKES. There were questions asked, yes, Senator. Senator DAMATO. So that's true. 368 Mr. ICKES. There were questions asked, Senator. Senator D'AMATO. No. Is that--I read you your testimony. Listen to your testimony. This is your testimony. "I, among others, asked him a number of questions about the details, that's you askingyou're saying that you "asked Mr. Altman details of the statute of limitations and to some extent the progress of the inquiry being conducted by the RTC." Is your testimony true? Mr. ICKES. If that's my testimony, I stand by it. Senator D'AMATO. You went on. You said "what he discussed there was," as Mr. Altman said, "that it was his view, based on information from his sources"---I don't think he delineated them, but I assumed one of them was the General Counsel of RTC--"that the investigation was going to take a longer period of time to conclude and that it might not be concluded until after the expiration of the statute of limitations." Is your testimony true? Mr. ICKES. If that is my testimony, I stand by it. Senator D'AMATO. That is your testimony. Let me continue. Mr. ICKES. Senator, could you tell me what page you're reading from? Senator D'AMATO. Yes, certainly. Page 121. Mr. Chairman, I'm going to need several minutes to complete this, but I assure my colleagues that I will be as indulgent, if not more, and will yield back time later on. I'd like to just finish this line of inquiry. The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection? The Chair hears none. Senator D'AMATO. Do you have that in front of you now? Senator KERRY. I'm not going to object, but I would like to have an understanding-obviously, there's a certain freshness to a certain number of questions here but I think there has also been a certain staleness to a certain number of questions with respect to the last panel, which I think we might agree went on too long, So I would hope we could all agree that once an area has been covered and we've essentially got the facts, none of us need to beat it to death.
The Huff-Puff Buffs
The Huff-Puff Buffs Railroad fans who won't let memories of the old steam locomotives die -- have a gala outing in Quebec and shoot their heads off -- with cameras -- on the 200 mile excursion (steam driven, of course).....View from front of train looking back around bend. Four men wearing goggles, hanging out window of train. Interior shot of seating area with riders including a man holding a camera out the window. Man and young boy wearing engineer hats. Passengers. Young man with hand held movie camera seated next to young woman looking out train window. Man wearing engineer outfit lays on train tracks takes picture with camera. Cut to train speeding by from depot, past camera. Nice speeding train shot.
STS-26 Shuttle Earth Views
This video features Earth views compiled from a variety of footage shot during shuttle missions. Included are parts of North America, Africa, Europe, the Orient, and the Middle East. Good high altitude views of various terrain, including mountains, lakes, rivers, and ocean. Some shots include black space at edge of earth but most have terrain filling the screen.
Twenty-Five Years Ago - Riots in Sudetenland
A quarter of a century ago history recorded 15 days of international crisis that forever shaped the destiny of man. There were riots in Sudetenland as pro-Hitler Germans backed his demand that this Czech territory and its people be returned to the Reich. As Munich, England and France allowed Hitler to take over ... appeasement did not work. Less than a year later war raged in Europe. The streets of France, people, French police. CUS - President Roosevelt. MS - White House senators discussing what would happen if a war broke out. MLHS - Street's of France and throngs jammed packed into the square. MS - Hitler's retreat at Benkisgarden; Great Britons Envoy Chamberlain disembarking from a car to have a meeting with Hitler. MS - Chamberlain and Hitler greeting each other. MS - Germany's vast power, cannons, army, trucks and tanks. MS - German planes in the sky flying in formation.
August 4, 1994 - Part 7
(16:30:57) Senator D'AMATO. I agree with my learned friend. Mr. Ickes? Next page, page 122, line 15. This is your testimony: "The purpose of this meeting and the focus of his discussion was the relationship of time that he felt this investigation might be wrapped up at and he said in so many words that it was his understanding"-being Altman--"that the investigation probably would not be concluded and that a determination could not be made by the RTC's General Counsel as to whether there was a basis for a civil claim until after the expiration of the statute of limitations has applied to the particular investigation." is your testimony true? Mr. ICKES. That is my testimony. Senator D'AMATO. Is it true? Mr. ICKES. Yes. Senator D'AMATO. Would you turn to page 124 , line 9. "I don't know whether it was public knowledge or not. I assumed that it was- when you say 'public,' did the public in general, I didn't think it was. I didn't know whether it was but it was my assumption that this was information that was not known to the public in general and probably very few people inside the Administration Is your testimony true? 369 Mr. ICKES. That is my testimony. Senator D'AMATO. It is true. Is it true? Mr, ICKES. Yes. Senator DAMATO. Thank you very much, and I thank my col- leagues. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Sarbanes-is Senator Sarbanes just in the back room or has he stepped away? Senator Shelby. Senator SHELBY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Podesta, did you help prepare Mr. Altman for the February 24th oversight hearing for this Banking Committee? Mr. PODESTA. No, Senator, Senator SHELBY. You were not involved in briefing notes or in volved in any way? Mr. PODESTA. Other than the statement I gave, which is that Senator SHELBY. What was that? Mr. PODESTA. I had a very brief conversation with Mike Levy who is the Assistant Secretary of Treasury, saying that they'll probably get questions about recusal and he should be prepared to answer them, and I believe I had a brief conversation with Josh Steiner, fairly shortly after I learned of the February 2nd meeting saying that he was likely to be asked about any contacts he had with the White House on Madison, and that he should be prepared to answer a question about it. Senator SHELBY. Mr. Podesta, you called Mr. Altman about the White House concerns about his testimony before this Committee? Mr. PODESTA. I did. Senator SHELBY. When did you call him? Mr. PODESTA. March 1. Senator SHELBY. How many days after his testimony? Mr. PODESTA. He testified on Thursday. That would be the following Tuesday. Senator SHELBY. What did you relate to him about the concerns? What did you say to him, basically what did you say? Mr. PODESTA. We had a 5- or 10-minute conversation. We talked briefly about setting up the February meeting. I think we both concluded that the testimony didn't need to be supplemented in that regard. We talked about recusal at some greater length, and then finally we talked-we approached the subject of Senator Bond's questions on how the White House became aware of the RTC criminal referrals. Senator SHELBY. Specifically, what did he say about his failure to mention the recusal issue before this Committee? Mr. PODESTA. He said-to the best of my recollection, he said that it had been inadvertent, it had been in his briefing notes-let me start earlier. I believe he said that it had been raised with him at Treasury. Senator SHELBY. Were you aware of Mr. PODESTA. And it had been inadvertent. It had been in the note, and that he was thinking about it.
August 4, 1994 - Part 7
(16:45:43) Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Senator, I really wasn't a part of any of those conversations, and as you might imagine, we haven't had a lot of internal discussions about them since then because of all these investigations. Senator GRAMM. You never heard anybody suggest that they had told him. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I have not had discussions of that manner. Mr. PODESTA. No, Senator. Mr. LINDSEY. No, Sir. Senator GRAMM. Well, I'd just like to say in passing, not since the St. Valentine's Day Massacre in Chicago have we seen a situation where something so dramatic happened, and yet, as in the case of that massacre, nobody heard a shot fired, Roger Altman comes over to give you the message that he's stepping aside, that he believes that he ought to step out of an investigation that could, in some way, involve an old friend, the President, and he leaves having changed his mind. And nowhere is there any evidence whatsoever that anybody suggested to him that he change his mind Mr. PODESTA, Senator Mr. ICKES. Senator, that is not my testimony and I don't think that's the testimony I've heard. Roger Altman came in and said that he was considering Ling whether or not to recuse himself. And there was discussion about that. At bottom, everyone at that meeting on February 2nd said it was up to him. There were some people who felt they didn't see any legal or ethical necessity, but it was up to him. The second point I would make, Senator--- Senator GRAMM. I'm going to stop you because Mr. ICKES. The second point I want to make Senator DODD. Let him respond. You've asked him to respond, Senator GRAMM. I asked a yes or no question. Senator DODD. He ought to have a chance to explain the answer. Witnesses should have an opportunity to be heard. Mr. ICKES. Thank you, Senator Dodd. The second point I would make, Senator, it is my recollection that during the course of the meeting on February 2nd, Mr. Altman made it very clear that he was going to follow the recommendations of the Staff of the RTC. Senator GRAMM. And their recommendation was what? Mr. ICKES. I don't know what it was or if there has even been a recommendation. Senator GRAMM. We know from all kinds of sworn statements it was that he step out of the investigation. Mr. ICKES. No Senator GRAMM. And that he didn't. Mr. ICKES. You and I are talking about different recommendations. The recommendation with respect to the handling of the civil suit or the possible civil suit. Senator GRAMM. Well, one of the problems (16:48:07)(tape #10092 ends)
US Downs Russia : Records Fall at Track Meet
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Peace In Laos: 14 Nations Sign Neutrality Pact
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Brenda Lee Makes International
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New York Hails New Luxury Liner
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Kids Mount Their Own "Horse"
Kids Mount Their Own "Horse" In Hamburg, the small fry take over the riding ring for a show of horsemanship (or pony boy-ship) as they display their skills. Little boy in overalls watching, laughs. Group of children riders race ponies around arena. Boy falls off pony, does a somersault.
August 4, 1994 - Part 7
(16:35:32) Senator SHELBY, Did you know that he had had about 12 hours Of preparation for the hearing? Mr. PODESTA. I did not. Senator SHELBY. But you knew he spent time preparing. 370 Mr. PODESTA. I suppose--I assumed maybe, rather than know, that he generally prepared, but I did not have any idea what the preparation had been. Senator SHELBY, Down at the White House, you all were very aware of this oversight hearing regarding RTC. Mr. PODESTA. We were aware of it. Senator SHELBY. It was not a run-of-the-mill hearing, was it? Mr. PODESTA, We assumed it would be used as an opportunity to get into Madison. We wanted it to be fair and balanced. Senator SHELBY. If Mr. Altman-have you seen the letters that Mr. Altman sent to this Committee supplementing his testimony? I believe it's three or four of them. Mr. PODESTA. I have. The letter on the 11th and 21st, I saw briefly in my Senate deposition. That was the first time I had seen them. Senator SHELBY. If Mr. Altman testified originally before this Committee as to what is contained in those letters cumulatively, could you tell me whether you would still have the same concerns that you did with the accuracy of his testimony? In other words, you had concerns with the accuracy of what he said Mr. PODESTA. I think the sum of those four letters address the concerns we had identified on March 1st. Senator SHELBY. Mr. Podesta, you're familiar---I guess everybody in the world is probably familiar now with Mr. Steiner's diary of what he kept. Mr. PODESTA. Again, I think the first time I saw it was in my House interview on the matter. They showed it to me. Senator SHELBY. So you're familiar. Everyone is familiar. Mr. PODESTA. Generally speaking. Senator SHELBY, Were you at the meeting-were you at one of the meetings at the White House where Mr. Altman came down to talk to Mr. Nussbaum? Were you not at one of the meetings? Mr. PODESTA. No. Senator SHELBY. You never went to any of those meetings? Mr. PODESTA. No. Senator SHELBY. Did you ever talk to him about recusal before his appearance before this Committee's oversight hearing? Mr. PODESTA. Are we talking about Mr. Altman? Senator SHELBY. Uh-huh. Mr. PODESTA. No. Senator SHELBY. It was never brought up. Mr. PODESTA. I never talked to Mr. Altman before his appearance. Let me put that in context. I never talked to Mr. Altman about his appearance at this Committee or anything having to do with any of his testimony. Mr. Altman, as you know, is in and out of the White House. I see him on a lot of other matters. Senator SHELBY. Have you ever talked to Mr. Nussbaum about Mr. Altman's recusal, in other words, have a conversation with Mr. Nussbaum? Mr. PODESTA. Yes. Certainly on March 1st. Senator SHELBY. According to what we've learned here, Mr. Podesta, of what you have said-and you can correct the record if I say it wrong-that Nussbaum told you that he had told Altman only to recuse himself if he was legally required to do so and he 371 should not recuse I himself if it was a matter of discretion. Did he use the word "legally"? Mr. PODESTA, I don't think that's my testimony, Senator. Senator Shelby, You've never said that? Mr. PODESTA. I don't think that's my testimony, but let me tell you what I-let me give you my recollection, which is that Mr. Nussbaum's position was that Mr. Altman should recuse himself if he was legally or ethically required to do so. I think there was some implication that he shouldn't-that it was his view that he shouldn't if he wasn't legally or ethically required to do so. Senator SHELBY. Were you concerned about the perception of maybe impropriety if he stayed there, rather than a legal aspect of it? Mr. PODESTA. Was I concerned? Senator SHELBY. About Altman's Mr. PODESTA, In advance of his recusal? Senator SHELBY. Right. Mr. PODESTA. I thought, at that point, he had made a decision that he wasn't going to recuse himself, and that he just needed to be prepared to answer questions about it. Senator SHELBY. Mr. Stephanopoulos, we don't have much time, as you know. You were asked about the Jay Stephens' hiring and I understand that. We know he was the U.S. Attorney, Republican U.S.
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Algerian Leaders Slated To Meet
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Queen Elizabeth In Plymouth
Queen Elizabeth In Plymouth The ancient British town of Plymouth gains an ultra-modern look as new municipal buildings are dedicated in the seaport town where the pilgrims set sail. Queen Elizabeth wearing coat and hat. Old woman waving handkerchief. Plaque. Civilians peeking over rail to get a glimpse of the Queen, one girl holds small flag (union jack), sailor? Mayor of Plymouth? Queen Elizabeth walks down street lined with crowds of on-lookers. Prince Philip seen walking behind.
Sports: Aussie Yacht In First
Sports: Aussie Yacht In First The Australian challenger for the America's Cup find her sea legs after the long trip from Down Under. She will try to lift the famed yachting trophy from an American defender. Various shots of Yachts and crews.
Sports:"Seven-Thirty"
Sports:"Seven-Thirty" The filly "Seven-Thirty" puts on an all-out dash for the wire to win $97,000 in the Delaware Handicap, richest race of its class. It's a thriller from start to finish. View of Stadium from racetrack. Interracial crowds (African American spectators). Start of race, horses run out of gate. Two women waving arms, cheering on horses. Numbers 2 and 3 neck and neck, Number 2 "Seven Thirty" pulls away and wins race.
Mosley Group Sparks British Rioting
Adult Caucasian men marching in Manchester, England; adult Caucasian policemen walk among them. Policemen pushing back a man. Man falling on top of another man; crowd marching around them. Man walks past camera, holding handkerchief on bloody face. VS police fighting with men; pushing one adult Caucasian woman to the ground. Sir Oswald Mosley speaking with a couple of adult Caucasian men; men jeering in BG. Overview of crowd occupying Ridley Road in Dalston. Adult Caucasian man getting angry with an adult Caucasian female; policeman steps in, takes him away. Mosley emerges between two buses with men protecting him; someone takes a swing, and a melee briefly ensues before Mosley is rescued. Officers lock arms to keep back protesters. Two women speaking to someone off camera. Mosley stands, tries speaking. Young man yelling from behind the line. Two adult men, one Caucasian, one Indian, fighting. VS of fighting amongst the crowd. Mosley walking.