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August 4, 1994 - Part 3
(11:25:32) Senator SHELBY. March 1993? Ms, WILLIAMS. Perhaps. Senator SHELBY. Had you dealt with him on more than this one occasion? MS. WILLIAMS. Yes, I have. Senator SHELBY. About how many times, in your best judgment, have you met and talked and dealt with Roger Altman? Ms. WILLIAMS. Well, quite a bit. Senator SHELBY. From 1993 on? Would it be as many as, say, 10 or 15 times? Ms. WILLIAMS. Yes, Senator SHELBY. More or less? Ms. WILLIAMS. It could be, yes. Senator SHELBY. And were those meetings or dealings about various things dealing with the Administration? Ms. WILLIAMS. Generally our meetings were Health Care related Senator SHELBY. Health Care related? Ms. WILLIAMS. Yes, Sir. Senator SHELBY. The word "paralyzed"---and he is quoting that and attributing that to you. Do you believe that Roger Altman is an intelligent man? Ms. WILLIAMS. Yes, I do. Senator SHELBY. I think we would stipulate that. Do you know whether he has ever attributed, done an attribution to you or something else that was not true? Ms. WILLIAMS. I do not know if he has done an attribution about me to someone else. I do not know that. Senator SHELBY. Have you used the word "paralyzed" in the context of a conversation with him? Did you, on this occasion? Ms. WILLIAMS. No, I did not, because I do not recall having a conversation with Mr. Altman. Second, because Senator SHELBY. You don't recall at all having a conversation with him on this occasion? MS. WILLIAMS. I do not, sir. Senator SHELBY. OK. Could you have had a conversation and not recalled it? Could there have been a conversation like this and you not recall it for various and sundry reasons? 309 Ms. WILLIAMS. I think that it is possible for a person not to have recalled it. I don't know if anyone here cae recall every conversa- tion they had on January whatever the date is, but I will say that what you do when you are trying to make a recollection, I believe, is you try and think about yourself. What would you do? What would you say? It gives you some sense about whether or not in an instance you would say that. I would not say that Mrs. Clinton is "paralyzed," one, because it just was not true. I look at her schedule. If this is the schedule of a "paralyzed" person, then she is in very good shape. Secondly, I would not discuss Mrs, Clinton's state of mind with anyone. That is what I know to be true about me. Senator SHELBY. Would you say, in describing the situation, if you do not want to claim ownership of the word "paralyzed" here, would you say she was deeply concerned? MS. WILLIAMS. Let me say that it would be unusual for a person who every day in the press was getting beaten up about a specific subject and a person who had to spend part of her time engaged in discussions with a private lawyer about things that happened 17 years ago, for this person not to be concerned. Senator SHELBY. "Deeply"? Deeply concerned? That is my phrase. MS. WILLIAMS. Mrs. Clinton did not express that to me, but I would have to be a blind person not to look at what was going on in the media and not to look at the time that she was spending with her personal lawyer not to know that this matter held some real interest for her. But let me go back to what I believe your question is. I do not recall having a conversation with Mr. Altman where I indicated that Mrs. Clinton was "paralyzed," for two reasons, and I will repeat them. One, it is not true she was paralyzed. Second, I know myself and I would not discuss Mrs. Clinton's state of mind. Now what I have volunteered to this Committee and to the House Committee is that during that period of time I certainly was outspoken in saying that I believed Whitewater was a distraction and that we needed to be about the business of the President's agenda. That is what I said. Senator SHELBY. If you didn't say that, or you have no recollection of saying that, or using that period, then do you believe that Roger Altman made this up and contemporaneously put it in his diary or scrap book? That would be sort of out of character for anyone would it not, to make up something like this that would be descriptive of what was going on, for example, at their house at that time, or his impression that he gathered from your conversation and write it down, put it in his diary or his scrapbook? Would that not be out of character for somebody to just make up something like that
"MET"
The Metropolitan Opera opens its 83rd season with a standing room only crowd paying up to $50 dollars a seat. Verdi's "LaTraviata" is the opener for the MET's second season at Lincoln Center. Rich people dressed in tuxedoes and gowns mingle and walk about. Several shots of the MET's interior. Close-up of the chandeliers. Rich African Americans. People standing in line.
Bike Race
London stages its first six-day bicycle race in sixteen years. Twelve two man teams whiz around the track with over $25,000 in prize money offered. The best of Europe's racers compete. Racers take off from a starting line. Various shots of cyclists racing around a small indoor track. The track is banked on the turns. Onlooker shots.
Speedboats
The first major speedboat race ever held in Holland is won by a British entry, D. Burton. Roaring around dangerous turns and down straightways, the 3-hour event thrills spectators. A half-dozen boats take off from their docks. Close-up shots of the boats racing through turns. Onlookers watch from the shore. Panoramic shot of boats speeding through open water with the buildings of Amsterdam in the back ground. The winner holds a gold trophy.
August 4, 1994 - Part 3
(11:30:24) Ms. WILLIAMS. Well Senator Shelby--- 310 Senator SHELBY [continuing]. Not thinking it would ever be coming up before the Senate Banking Committee? Ms. WILLIAMS. Well, Senator Shelby, I cannot speak to what it was that Mr. Altman was doing, but I can speak to what I was saying, what I was doing, what I normally would not do. That is what I can speak to, my recollections, and I can speak to only my recollections. Senator SHELBY. Yes, ma'am, but you did say a few minutes ago that you had met and conferred with Mr. Altman on as many as 10, 15 occasions, mainly dealing in the Health Care area? Ms. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. That's correct. Senator SHELBY. So if he is recording this in his diary describing what was going on at the White House with Mrs. Clinton from what he perceived or what he picked up from you, and it was in the subject area of Health Care, it would be in keeping with his meetings with you, would it not-the subject of Health Care? Ms. WILLIAMS. The subject of Health Care? Senator SHELBY. Sure. Ms. WILLIAMS. Yes. Senator SHELBY. In other words, this was in the context of Health Care. "On Whitewater, Maggie told me that Hillary Rodham Clinton was paralyzed by it. If we don't solve this within the next two days, you don't have to worry about her schedule on Health Care" and so forth. In other words, the context of your conversation generally with him was Health Care. Ms. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. Senator SHELBY. And how it would affect, or how other things could affect the campaign for it. MS. WILLIAMS. Sir, I understand your question. I understand the logic of it. But that does not change my testimony with respect to my recollection of what took place. Senator SHELBY. Do you ever recall--or if you don't recall, is this phrase here, this sentence in keeping with something you may have said, that "HRC," Hillary Rodham Clinton, "doesn't want the Counsel poking into 20 years of public life in Arkansas"? Have you ever said, if not that, something like that? Ms. WILLIAMS. What I have said Senator SHELBY. Something he could interpret like that? Ms. WILLIAMS. What I have said, as I said before the House Committee, was that I have said that I believed that 17 years of Arkansas history was irrelevant to the President's agenda. That is what I have said. Senator SHELBY. So that he could have picked that up from what you said and written what he had in the diary. Ms. WILLIAMS. Sir, I am sorry; I really refuse to speculate as to how Mr. Altman arrived at that. Senator SHELBY. Well I will leave it up to the Committee. I mean, what you said referred to 17 years of Arkansas politics. We understand that. Then if he says HRC does not want Counsel poking into 20 years of public life, that is not far off. The sentences are not far off My time is up. 311 The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Senator Roth. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR ROTH Senator ROTH. Mr. McLarty, yesterday I tried to ask a number of the members of the White House Counsel's staff about a telephone call that George Stephanopoulos made to Josh Steiner in the Treasury Department on February 25, 1994, and whether it violated White House Ethics Guidelines prohibiting contact by White House staff with investigative agencies on pending cases. I was not successful in getting anyone to answer my question, so I would like to pose the same question to you. First, do you agree that the Nussbaum memorandum of February 22, 1993, prohibited White House staff contacts with investigative agencies, including Treasury, about pending investigations on specific cases? Mr. McLARTY. I think the memoranda that you are referring to, Senator, outlines written or oral communications concerning pending investigations must be directed through the Counsel's Office. Senator ROTH. Yes. And there is no exception in that guideline, is there, on that matter? Mr. McLARTY. Without reading it closely, I am not aware of any exception. I think it speaks for itself here.
Railroad Problem
A surprise strike against the Illinois Central Railroad brings to a climax the management labor controversy that has been simmering for nearly five years. The railroad put new work rules into effect and the Unions threatened a strike. President Johnson's persuasive powers halted the strike for at least 15 days, having called both sides of the dispute to the White House for a meeting. Chicago, Illinois The railroad yards in Chicago. MS - Camera panning empty train station terminals. MS - A few people sitting in the almost empty terminals. MS - Railroad workers picketing in Downtown Chicago "the Loop" MS - Railroad tracks at the depot not in use.
Revlon Commercial With Mike Wallace
Revlon Commercial With Mike Wallace MCU Mike Wallace in tuxedo beside Revlon logo pitching "Lanolite Lipstick", Wallace lifts the lipstick & strikes a pose w/the product. CU lipstick tube w/text superimposed "Revlon s Lanolite Lipstick." Wallace introduces June Graham who does a demonstration comparing Revlon Lanolite to other lipsticks on the market. Back to Wallace as he pitches & poses with Revlon Lanolite lipstick.
TV Classics, Howdy Doody
TV Classics, Howdy Doody
TV Classics, Art Linkletter
TV Classics, Art Linkletter
August 4, 1994 - Part 3
(11:35:20) Senator ROTH. Are you aware that George Stephanopoulos called Josh Steiner, the Chief of Staff at Treasury, and complained about the hiring of Jay Stephens as Counsel on the Madison Guaranty case? Mr. MCLARTY. I am aware that Mr. Stephanopoulos called Mr. Steiner on February 25th. Senator ROTH. In fact, you talked to Stephanopoulos sometime after the call. In your deposition you testified that at a later time you asked Mr. Cutler to review this matter from the Counsel's Office. Is this correct? Mr. MCLARTY. Yes, sir, it is. I asked Mr. Cutler, as I said in my opening comments, to review these matters thoroughly, which he has done. Senator ROTH. Was that because you felt that the very first call that was made might have violated the Nussbaum ethics memo? Mr. MCLARTY. The very first call that was made, Senator? Would you please clarify that? Senator ROTH, Well when Stephanopoulos called Josh Steiner. Mr. MCLARTY. No. I asked Mr. Cutler to review all of the contacts as White House Counsel, which he has done. Senator ROTH. Because you felt there was a question as to whether they were in accord with the Nussbaum memorandum? Mr. McLARTY. Well I think in a broader sense they have become a matter of public inquiry, much like Secretary Bentsen directed the Office of Government Ethics and the Treasury. I followed a similar approach in the White House for Mr. Cutler coming aboard. Senator ROTH. Do you feel that kind of contact raised a question of violating the Nussbaum memorandum? 312 Mr. MCLARTY. It could have. And of course Mr. Cutler, Senator, as you know has rendered his report, as have the Office of Government Ethics, and Mr. Cutler will be here Friday, but I think Mr. Cutler concludes that this contact was understandable and no ethical impropriety was involved. That was his conclusion. And I believe the Office of Government Ethics reaches a similar conclusion in their report. Senator ROTH. How do you reconcile that with the memo which clearly states that any such contact should be made through the Office of the White House Counsel rather than from staff to staff? Does that not on the surface appear to be in conflict with the purpose of the Nussbaum memorandum? Mr- McLARTY. Senator, your point is well made, that any contacts with regulatory agencies that might be perceived as a contact regarding a matter under review or investigation, as Mr. Cutler did point out in his report, should be channeled through the White House Counsel's Office and, even better, as I said again in my opening comments, channeled Counsel to Counsel. I would note that most of the contacts did have White House Counsel involved, and many of course, as Senator Bryan or someone had suggested, were initiated by people at the Treasury. Senator ROTH. Now there was a similar joint call by Harold Ickes and George Stephanopoulos to Roger Altman at Treasury on February 25, 1994, complaining about the Stephens appointment. Does that not raise the same ethical question under the Nussbaum guideline? Mr. McLARTY. I believe that call was perhaps about the manner that Mr. Altman had chosen to recuse himself, Senator, if I understand the facts correctly. Senator ROTH. But the purpose of the Nussbaum memorandum was to be a guideline for all contacts between the White House and agencies where there were investigative, adjudicative, and similar regulatory matters before them, was it not? Mr. McLARTY. That is correct, Senator. Senator ROTH. Now I would like to turn briefly to another question There has been a lot of talk about something called a "de facto recusal" by Roger Altman in the Madison Guaranty case. Now it is my understanding, Mr. McLarty, you recused yourself from dealing with any issue since coming to Washing-ton from Arkansas-or let me put it this way. It is my understanding that during the Presidential transition you recused yourself from all RTC issues because your former company. Arkla, was a defendant in an RTC lawsuit? Is that correct?
Snow skiing (trees)
Artificial snow ski jump
Ski lift (Palm Springs)
Snow skiing
Unknown
Skiiers at outdoor cafe
Snow ski jump
Snow skiing
Snow skiing
Man skiing without ski's
Ski lift (no snow)