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August 1, 1994 - Part 9
(23:00:26) Question: Who in Treasury or the RTC knew that you had this conversation? Answer: I don't recall that I told anyone of the conversation. Question: Did you tell Mr. Altman? Answer. No. Question: Did anyone ask you to have this conversation? Answer: No. I, again, put to you this very basic question about how you got to see Mr. Nussbaum. Was it on your own, or at Mr. Altman's instruction? Ms. HANSON. Sir, I have thought about this very carefully, over a period of time, and I firmly recall having a conversation with Mr. Altman, on the subject, and being given the responsibility to talk with Mr. Nussbaum., as I've stated. I have testified, now, under oath. Senator DODD. Could I just-one second. I heard you respond to this question maybe 10 times in the last 12 hours, and maybe my ears nave picked it up. I heard you use the word "authorized" or the phrase "given the responsibility'' but the Senator from Mary- land asked the question differently. I mean, the question is whether you, on your own initiative, saw Mr. Nussbaum, or whether or not you were directed by Mr. Altman to see Mr. Nussbaum? Do you understand what I'm saying? The question is whether or not you had authorization to do it, or whether you were directed to do it? Ms. HANSON. I understood that I had the responsibility for telling Mr. Nussbaum. Now I don't. Senator DODD. Is that implied by the statute that you talked about earlier, or did Mr. Altman say to you, "Jean, I want you to go see Mr. Nussbaum at the White House and tell him what's going on here"? Ms. HANSON. I don't recall the exact words of the conversation Senator DODD. I understand that. Ms. HANSON. -but I recall the substance of the conversation, and the substance of the conversation was that I should tell this information to Mr. Nussbaum because it was going to leak to the press. You can call it tasked, or given responsibility. Senator DODD. I apologize, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. If you'll permit me. Do you happen to remember where that happened? Do you have a scene in mind? Ms. HANSON. It was in Mr. Altman's office, right after I spoke with Mr. Roelle, 192 The CHAIRMAN. So you can place it, you have a picture in your mind as to where you were when this was said to you? Ms. HANSON. Yes, sir, I do. As I say, I recall that Mr. Altman had a file he asked his secretary to bring, a file which she brought in and out of which he took a copy of an RTC-actually, I had orgotten that it was an RTC clip sheet, but he took out an article that had appeared in The New York Times. He had a copy made and gave it to me which, as I've stated, Mr. Nussbaum, in his testimony, has said that, in my initial conversation with him, I told him Mr.-I understood that Mr. Altman had sent him, had already, previous ly, given him information about this. That's not information I would have had, that piece of information that Mr. Altman had previously given him information, without having talked with Mr. Altman in anticipation of going to talk with Mr. Nussbaum. That's just, as I say, that's just a statement that I've learned of recently. The CHAIRMAN. Was what he gave you out of his folder, then, a copy of the same thing he'd sent over to the White House earlier? Ms. HANSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Gramm, Senator GRAMM. Let me be sure I've got this right, because this is goign did to be important tomorrow. He gave you that article, which you not have nor did you have access to, in his office when be told you to contact Mr. Nussbaum? Ms. HANsON. I don't recall, sir, if it was in that same conversation or in a subsequent conversation. I recall, though, if you look at Mr. Sloan's notes, the first thing it says is "Altman's files, NYT 3/2/92, Altman thinks" Senator DODD. Just one second. Maybe it's the hour, but I just heard you say, in response to Senator Sarbanes' or Senator Riegle's question, that you recalled the meeting because you had an article, because the Secretary was in the room. In response to Senator Gramm, you're saying you can't recall, whether or not, you were given the article or the memo at that particular meeting?. Ms. HANSON. I think, maybe, we're all getting tired, because I thought I just heard you say something about the Secretary being in the room. Let me make clear-let me do this again. I recall, specifically, having a conversation with Mr. Altman, in his office, shortly after I had the telephone conversation with Mr. Roelle.
August 1, 1994 - Part 9
(23:05:34) I recall discussing it with him, and I recall the substance of the conversation to be that I should tell Mr. Nussbaum about the press leaks, the imminent press leaks. I also recall, and I have always recalled, and my testimony on this has always been the same, that either in that meeting, or in another meeting around-close in time, Mr. Altman called in his secretary and asked her to bring him a file, which-in which he had The New York Times article that he gave me. He had a copy made and he gave it to me. It was around that time. I have not recalled whether it was in that exact meeting, or in a subsequent meeting shortly after that. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Gramm. Senator GRAMM. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So it's even possible, Ms. Hanson, that you talked to Mr. Altman twice about it. You might have gotten the directive to call the of 193 fice, and you might have gotten the article at another meeting on the same subject? Ms. HANSON. That's correct, sir. Senator GRAMM. You made the point, the strongest point you've made here tonight, that it would be, for all practical purposes, impossible that you would have contacted Mr. Nussbaum, on this subject, without a clear and direct directive or order. I've sat here ever since you've been here, and that's been the strongest point you've made. The point is that it would have been inconceivable for you to have contacted Mr. Nussbaum without a straight directive or order from Mr, Altman. That's correct, isn't it? Ms. HANSON. That is correct. I would not have contacted Mr. Nussbaum. Senator GRAMM. Would you say it is also correct that Mr. Altman would have known that you would not? Ms. HANSON. I'm sorry? Senator GRAmm. Would you say it is also true that Mr. Altman would have known, or would have known then, that you would not have made that contact without his approval? Ms. HANsON. I don't know the answer to that question, sir. If you could rephrase the question. Senator GRAMM. You worked with Mr. Altman. You worked for him. Right? ht9 Ms. HANSON. Yes. Senator GRAMM. Would you believe that he would think that you would contact Mr. Nussbaum, about a criminal investigation &at involved the President of the United States, without him telling you to do it? Ms. HANSON. You'll have to ask him that question, sir. Senator GRAMM. You don't have an opinion, one way or another? Ms. HANSON. No, sir, I don't. Senator GRAMM. I want to go back to the letter of March 2, 1994. 1 have a total of five questions and I'll try to get through them as quickly as I can. You have said, several times ere, that this letter of March 2, 1994, a letter that, as Counsel, you were involved in, was sent for one, and only one, purpose. That purpose was, in essence, to give the Committee a heads-up that there was about to be a media story about these two meetings. Is that right? Ms. HANSON. That was my understanding of what the purpose of that letter was. Senator GRAMM. So Mr. Altman wrote us the letter simply to tell us something he knew we were going to hear about the next day in the paper. Ms. HANSON. As I stated, it was not intended to correct the record or to be a full answer to your question. Senator GRAMM. Was he telling us, as a courtesy, so we would know when we read it in the paper the next day? Ms. HANSON. It was my understanding the timing of the sending of that letter was a result of the article that was going to appear in the paper. However, as I stated, the expectation was that there would be a full review Senator GRAMM. Let me go back to this point. Was be telling us, as a courtesy, so that we would know what the facts were when the article came out, or was he writing this letter, solely, to protect himself so that 194 he would have told us prior to the article coming out the next day? Ms. HANSON. I think you'll have to ask him that question, sir. Senator GRAMM. You here say, that in this letter, there was no reason for him, in essence, to tell any more, that this was a special purpose letter, and that, because he was going to write us another letter, he was under no obligation in this letter to give us the truth, the whole truth-you know the line better than I do.
Dartmouth 28 - Princeton 14
With a 17-game winning streak behind them, Princeton takes on Dartmouth for the Ivy League title. this game, too, is an aerial thriller with Mal Beard of Dartmouth tossing some brilliant passes - including the longest touchdown pass in Dartmouth history - 79 yards. New Jersey Fans packed at Princeton's football field. Princeton rolls out early against Dartmouth, runs 35 yards. From about the 2 yard line, Princeton carries the ball over for a touchdown. Dartmouth comes awake in the second quarter. Dartmouth opens a brilliant passing attack, the ball is caught and is good for 22 yards. Dartmouth goes over from the 1 yard line and the game is all tied up. Princeton passes the football and it is interceptedr. Dartmouth passes again and chalks up another 22 yards. Dartmouth passes and gets to the 5 yard line. Dartmouth takes it over the goal line for touchdown. At the half Dartmouth leads 14 to 7. Late in the third quarter Dartmouth reopens the passing attack. Cheerleaders do an exercise for the football fans. The football is passed off and run around end for the third Dartmouth touchdown. Dartmouth throws a 79 yard pass - the longest Dartmouth pass in their history, and it is run in for a touchdown. With 32 seconds left Princeton passes and makes it Princeton 14, Dartmouth 28.