Hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committe on the Nomination of Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court
Hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committe on the Nomination of Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court
Hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committe on the Nomination of Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court October 12, 1991. Clarence Thomas appears before Commitee after the have questioned Anita Hill about her charges of sexual harassment
Hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committe on the Nomination of Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court
Senator Howell Heflin (D - Alabama). Judge, Senator Hatch brought up the issue of the Tenth Circuit case pertaining to Long Dong Silver, and in your responsibility as head of the EEOC, do you keep up with cases involving discrimination and sexual harassment that the Circuit Court of Appeals may decide? Judge Clarence Thomas. Senator, the way that that is normally done is that if there is a significant case, I did not read specific cases, but if there were a significant case the general counsel would summarize that, would analyze it, and if necessary, would simply provide us with a copy of it. I would not normally read Circuit Court opinions unless it was breaking new ground. Senator Howell Heflin (D - Alabama). Well, in the field of employment discrimination, in a year's time how many Circuit Court of Appeals opinions, cases have been written, say, per year, over the last several years? Judge Clarence Thomas. Senator, I don't know. Senator Howell Heflin (D - Alabama). Now, let me ask you, did you read this case of the Tenth Circuit that involved this Long Dong Silver? Judge Clarence Thomas. Senator, this is the first I have heard of it, and I have not read it. Senator Howell Heflin (D - Alabama). The term, Long Dong Silver, whatever else might be given to it, I have been told that there is a movie, a pornographic movie in regards to it. Have you ever heard of the name of that? Judge Clarence Thomas. No, Senator. Senator Howell Heflin (D - Alabama). Now, this issue of pubic hair in the coke, did you read the book, the Exorcist? Judge Clarence Thomas. No, Senator. Senator Howell Heflin (D - Alabama). Quite a few people have read it, haven't they, from what I understand. I haven't read it, but - Judge Clarence Thomas. I don't know. I can't testify. I think the publisher would have to tell you that, Senator.
Hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committe on the Nomination of Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court
Senator Howell Heflin (D - Alabama). All right, have you seen the deposition of Angela Wright that has been taken in this case? Judge Clarence Thomas. No, Senator. Senator Howell Heflin (D - Alabama). Well, then I will wait on that. That has some reference in your relationship with Juan Williams. I suppose she is going to testify and the proper place would be to ask then. Senator Howell Heflin (D - Alabama). You, in your opening statement made a statement about the lack of corroborating witnesses. I had some discussion with two other people and we were talking about how unusual this case was and how it has attracted attention nationally of people because of its unusualness. And one of them remarked it is not unusual that this occurs and the type of situation we are in today occurs in almost every date rape case that occurs, that there are no witnesses. And usually in regard to the prosecution in that case and the defense of those cases, a somewhat wider latitude is allowed relative to background pertaining to it. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). Mr. Chairman, excuse me, Senator, I have to object to this line of questioning. I don't know of anybody who has accused him of date rape. Is what you are driving at? Senator Howell Heflin (D - Alabama). Well, it is a common term as I understand it date rape is where people go out on dates and rape occurs. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). What does that have to do with this? Senator Howell Heflin (D - Alabama). Well, the analogy between the two is the analogy that in the trial of such cases, that broader leeway is given relative to investigations to tendencies of people that are involved in it in the past. And the only thing I am asking you, Judge, is whether or not you refused to answer any questions other than what may have occurred in employment. Do you continue to do that? Judge Clarence Thomas. Oh, absolutely, Senator. I will not be further humiliated by this process. I think I have suffered enough, my family has suffered enough. I think that I have attempted to address all of the questions with respect to my relationship with Ms. Hill in the work force and I think enough is enough.
Hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committe on the Nomination of Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court
Senator Howell Heflin (D - Alabama). I had an old trial lawyer tell me one time, Judge, that if you got the facts on your side, argue the facts to the jury. If you got the law on your side, argue the law to the judge. If you have got neither, confuse the issue with other parties. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). You mean like date rape? Senator Howell Heflin (D - Alabama). That's a statement. I don't simply ask questions. You have been asked questions that really here have been made for the purpose of making speeches and then after a long period of time they would ask you a question. And they would ask you questions about whether that is credible, which, in effect, is asking a participant relative to that, if such occurred.
Hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committe on the Nomination of Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court
Senator Howell Heflin (D - Alabama). Let me just ask you these other things. This might have some bearing and it might not. But I think it should be asked. What was the date of your divorce? Judge Clarence Thomas. I think it is irrelevant here, Senator. I was separated during - I will only answer during the relevant time period. All of that material is in my FBI file and was available to the committee before. I will only discuss the allegations in this case. My family, Senator, has been humiliated enough. I have been humiliated enough. I was separated from my former wife, once in January of 1981; we reconciled during the summer; and then we separated again in August of 1981. Senator Howell Heflin (D - Alabama). All right, I will respect you. Whatever you want to state and however you want to answer it.
Hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committe on the Nomination of Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court
Senator Howell Heflin (D - Alabama). There was a question that I believe was asked of Ms. Hill or she brought it out, as I remember, but at least I have seen it in files, affidavits, or somewhere, that she said that you made a statement to her, to Ms. Professor Hill, that you stated, "You know, if you had any witnesses, you would have a good case against me." Well, did any such thing like that ever happen? Judge Clarence Thomas. That's nonsense, Senator. I never made any statement like that. I never made the statements that she has alleged.
Hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committe on the Nomination of Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court
Senator Howell Heflin (D - Alabama). All right, well, we get back down to the whole issue here is, who is telling the truth, what the motives are? And have you given any other thought, has any other thought come to your mind as to what her motive might be? Judge Clarence Thomas. Senator, as I said before, I think you should ask the people who helped concoct this and the people who leaked it to the press what the motives were. Senator Howell Heflin (D - Alabama). Well, you see that is when we talk about other issues of both parties. Judge Clarence Thomas. I understand. Senator Howell Heflin (D - Alabama). Well, we are still left with a quandary as to where we are. And as I stated in the first hearing, what is the real Clarence Thomas like? I think an issue now is what is the real Anita Hill like? And we have to make the decisions relative to those issues.