July 19, 1995 - Part 1
July 19, 1995 - Part 1
(10:30:15) Senator GRAMS. Let's look at someone who could remove himself, .and that was Mr. Heymann, the Deputy Attorney General. According to your deposition, you said that Mr. Heymann was saying the Park Police were on the verge of saying that Nussbaum had interfered with that investigation, and I'll read from that. The question Was, "What sort of problems did Mr. Heymann indicate that it could lead to?" Your answer was, "He thought that the Park Police were close to saying that Bernie had-was interfering with the investigation," 90 That's what I'm trying to ask. If we're looking at someone who is removed from this situation and not as close, no matter what the motive or reasons were, there was the appearance to many that the White House was interfering with this investigation? Mr. HUBBELL. That's what Phil told me, and that's why Phil called, Bernie, I believe, yes. Senator GRAMS. Did you have any conversations with Mr. Nussbaum in the weeks following about how these events unfolded in, say 2 or 3 or 4 weeks after? Did you ever sit down with Mr. Nussbaum and go back and say this was a mistake or why did you do that? Did he try to justify some of the reasons of breaking the agreement with the Park Service, not sealing the office in advance any concerns like that that you raised in your questions with him? Mr. HUBBELL. No, Senator, I did not. I met with Bernie a times, usually talked to him on the phone on a daily basis, but were busy. We had tons of things to do and we did our work, I didn't ever sit down and question him about that. Senator GRAMS. I have no more questions. I'd like to yield what ever time I have remaining to Mr. Chertoff. Mr. CHERTOFF. Thank you, Senator. Mr. Hubbell, if I could come back to a couple of points, I believe you testified a moment ago that on the morning of the 21st, which was the morning immediately after Mr. Foster's death, you called Mr. Burton at the White House about sealing the office; is that cor- rect? Mr. HUBBELL. That's correct. Mr. CHERTOFF. This is something you yourself remember? Mr. HUBBELL. I do remember this, yes. Mr. CHERTOFF. Am I correct that you called, you think, sometime before 8 a.m.? Mr. HUBBELL. I do, although I have to admit my time co way off because I don't think I went to bed until 2 or 3 a. didn't sleep. Then, when you showed me my mobile phone records the next day, it doesn't look like I even called Lisa's house 10 a.m so it could have been later but I believe it was around 8 a.m. Mr. CHERTOFF. It was one of the first things you did? Mr. HUBBELL. It was probably one of the first things I did. Mr. CHERTOFF. Mr. Burton told you that the office had already been secured and locked; correct? Mr. HUBBELL. Yes. Mr. CHERTOFF. He gave you the impression that had been don the night before? Mr. HUBBELL. That's correct. Mr. CHERTOFF. Did he tell you that there had been people from the White House in Mr. Foster's office the previous night shortly before midnight? Mr. HUBBELL. No, he did not. Mr. CHERTOFF. On the morning of the 21st you also had a conversation with Mr. Nussbaum; correct? Mr. HUBBELL. I'm sure I talked to Bernie-oh, on that morning yes, I know I talked to Bernie. Mr. CHERTOFF. That's the conversation in which you advised that he ought to stay out of the matter; correct? 91 Mr. HUBBELL. That's correct, Mr. CHERTOFF. Did he tell you at that time that he himself had been in Mr. Foster's office shortly before midnight the night before? Mr. HUBBELL, No, he did not. I know I had at sometime a conversation with Bernie where I asked Bernie if he found a note, and so the logic is at some point he went in and looked to see if there was a note, but I can't tell you when I had that conversation. Mr. CHERTOFF. Did you have it on the morning of the 21st? Mr. HUBBELL. I don't believe so. I mean, my recollection of the events of the 21st were that we all assembled in David's office and heard the report from the Park Police, and then everybody was rushing to get out of that because they had, I believe, a lot of things to get done, so my conversation with Bernie was very short. It may have been later that day or it could have been the night of Vince's death. I just don't know. Mr. CHERTOFF. Thank you. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Sarbanes. Senator SARBANES. Senator Bryan. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR RICHARD H. BRYAN Senator BRYAN. Thank you very much, Senator. Mr. Hubbell, as I examined the record, I don't see any violation of law. I do see a number of mistakes. As you have provided us an insight into what occurred on the night of July 20, 1993 and immediately thereafter, it seems to me that several things were occurring. I am impressed with the emotional impact that this tragic suicide had upon you and others who, in some instances, knew Mr. Foster for many, many years. There was an obvious solicitude for the Foster family, which was devastated by that news, and so those emotions are profound and they are, to some extent, overpowering.