July 19, 1995 - Part 1
July 19, 1995 - Part 1
(09:40:30) Mr. HUBBELL. Actually, they had complained through Tom Collier, who was the Chief of Staff for Secretary Babbitt. Senator SHELBY. Through the Department of the Interior. But it had made its way to the Justice Department up as far as the Deputy Attorney General of the United States, had it not? Mr. HUBBELL. Yes, I believe Mr. Collier called Phil, and then Phil called Bernie. Senator SHELBY. In other words, the Park Police were concerned about not being able to do their job, as far as they saw it, at the White House with the White House Deputy Counsel's Office? Mr. HUBBELL. Senator, I really don't know what the Park Police said to Torn, who said to Phil Senator SHELBY. But you do know what Mr. Heymann said to you? Mr. HUBBELL. I do, and that's what I'm trying to relate to you. Senator SHELBY. You go ahead and relate it. Mr. HUBBELL. That they were concerned about the way the search of the files-I don't believe there was any question about the search of the office. I think we're talking about the files and how that was being done, that they would rather do it in a different manner. Senator SHELBY. In what different manner? Mr, HUBBELL. I really don't know what the initial agreement was, Senator. I really don't. Senator SHELBY. But you do know there was an initial agreement and then it was changed apparently; is that right? Mr. HUBBELL. That's my understanding from what Phil told me. Senator SHELBY. But you were not party to that, and you weren't privy to all of it? Mr, HUBBELL. No, I was not. I was in Little Rock, Senator. Senator SHELBY. Was it your impression from talking to Mr. Heymann over at the Justice Department that Mr. Heymann felt that the Department of Justice initially had an understanding with Mr. Nussbaum, the White House Counsel, about how the search would be conducted? 75 Mr. HUBBELL. That's correct. Senator SHELBY. Did he relate to you in any way his concerns about Mr. Nussbaum changing the understanding? Mr. HUBBELL. He related to me that the understanding had changed, and that concerns were raised to him and that's why he needed to talk to Bernie to get it fixed and resolved. He knew Bernie Nussbaum very well. Senator SHELBY. Did you ever hear Mr. Heymann say something to the effect that Mr. Nussbaum had an aggressive litigator stance regarding this? Mr. HUBBELL. That was my impression. I don't remember the exact words, but the impression I had was Bernie had his aggressive litigator hat on. Senator SHELBY. What would you surmise from that kind of a phrase? Mr. HUBBELL. I'm a Southern litigator, and I'm familiar with New York litigators versus Southern litigators, and I viewed that Bernie had his New York litigator hat on, no offense to anybody from New York, Senator and Chairman. Senator SHELBY. Is that what you would call a very aggressive stance? The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Hubbell, let me ask you, have I been aggressive so far? Mr. HUBBELL. No, Senator. Senator BOND. Mr. Chairman, the Senator from Alabama and I understand exactly what Mr. Hubbell means. [Laughter.] Some of us have had it explained to us before. The CHAIRMAN. The Senator from California continues to remind me of our New York connection. Senator BOXER. Mr. Chairman, may I correct you, Brooklyn. The CHAIRMAN. That is part of it. Senator BOYER. I understand. Senator SHELBY. Mr. Hubbell, I believe you also stated yesterday in light of the Travel Office incident that you felt that the White House Counsel's Office should stay out of the investigation of Vince Foster's - death, and that you told Bernie Nussbaum this or words to that effect. Mr. HUBBELL. I believe I told Bernie that Senator SHELBY. Just tell us what you told him. Mr. HUBBELL. I believe-and it was a very short conversationwe were all in David Watkins' office. We had heard the report from the Park Police. Everybody was leaving, and I said something to the effect that Bernie Senator SHELBY. Where was David Watkins' office? Mr. HUBBELL. It's on the first floor of the West Wing. Senator SHELBY. Of the White House? Mr. HUBBELL. Of the White House, yes. There were a lot of people all exiting, and I said Bernie, can I talk to you for a second? I really think you ought to think about staying out of this, or words to that effect. I mean, it's been 2 years, and so that's what I said. I didn't mention the Travel Office, I don't believe. Senator SHELBY. You didn't refer to it, allude to it or anything? Mr. HUBBELL. I don't believe so, but I could have. 76 Senator SHELBY. But you could have? Mr. HUBBELL. I could have said just about anything in that period of time and those days and not remember it. Senator SHELBY. Sure. Mr. Hubbell, do you have an opinion or do you know-that would be better-do you know why Bernie Nussbaum didn't want the Department of Justice to conduct a search and review the contents in Vince Foster's office? Mr. HUBBELL. I certainly don't know that, and that's not what I understand. They did conduct a review of the files. It was just done in a way that was not the initial agreement with Phil, and I'm not here to defend Bernie one way or the other. Senator SHELBY. I understand.