August 4, 1994 - Part 13
August 4, 1994 - Part 13
(01:00:40) Senator MURRAY. Public perception standard, could we find anybody to be in that position? 511 Senator KERRY. If I could supplement the question to Mr. Nussbaum and, look, I don't quarrel with you on any other level, but don't you think Mr. Altman fell into-he's not just a political appointee in the sense-I'm on her time Senator D'AMATO. I don't agree. I'll read the whole thing. Senator DODD. It's important. Senator MURRAY. I don't believe they're arguing with that, Senator Kerry. Senator KERRY. They're talking about something else. Just on the question of Mr. Altman, he ran the war room, he had this extraordinary access to the White House, he was a major player in Health Care. So here you have somebody who's a central part of the President's political agenda in a way many people wouldn't Separate from the rise or fall of the President himself, particularly the campaign, also. I think you have a very different status than just an appointee who goes off to do his job. Mr. NUSSBAUM. Senator Kerry, you're making it a very strong argument in this respect, and it really is a close case, maybe a closer case than sometimes I make it sound when I get carried away with my position. But you have to understand what he said to me at that meeting, and it sort of subsumed some of the things you said. He comes into me and he says I am not legally or ethically required to recuse myself. I know that legal or ethical recusal standards take into account relationships and appearances, so he's, in effect, saying to me I've gone to somebody. I've discussed these issues. I've laid out all the facts, including, I presume, those kinds of things, and I've gotten this advice. Then that triggers my response. Maybe you're speaking with justification or you're saying with justification that I should have examined it more, come to an independent conclusion about this, and maybe you've reached a different conclusion. Senator MURRAY. Mr. Nussbaum, it's my time that I'm losing here. I think that this is a discussion that this Committee is going to have to have. Fortunately, the RTC is going to go out of exist- ence, I hope in my lifetime, but I do think it's a question that all of us have to as ask ourselves. If we have Presidential appointees, is there an ethic bar so high that no one can jump over it and every- one would have to recuse? Before I lose my time, Mr. Nussbaum, I have to ask you something else and it goes away from this entirely. Having sat here and listened to all kinds of theories about who did what and how awful they were, it seems to me that some people came into this willing to hang somebody before we started and some people are still there. I'm not sure where I am yet, but I have to go back to our very first day of hearings when we discussed Vince Foster's suicide. I know you were not here, but I know that you knew him. And I have to ask you, having left this town, having watched all of this. Vince Foster said something and I would just like to give you an opportunity to comment on it. "Here, ruining people is considered sport." I really would like to hear what you have to say about his observation. Mr. NUSSBAUM. That's a very hard question to ask me, because I really had great affection and great respect for Vince Foster. He was a marvelous person and a great Deputy. I think the course of 512 my life was changed by his suicide. I think, to some extent) he was right. I think in Washington, among some people, ruining people is considered sport. But I don't really believe that exists on every level. I really don't agree with Vince in the final analysis. I think there's a lot of it. There's too much of it, but fundamentally-I said this before the House, to some extent, too--fundamentally, I believe the public service is a high calling. I believe it's a worthy calling. I believe it has certain dangers that go along with it. I believe you should ex- pect those. You should try to deal with those as best you can, it shouldn't discourage people. I don't want Vince's death, I don't want my experience to discourage people from coming to Washington. I really want people to come and to serve.