August 4, 1994 - Part 11
August 4, 1994 - Part 11
(21:25:33) Senator SHELBY. "He" being Mr. DeVore. Mr. LINDSEY. "He" being Mr. DeVore, sorry. Mr. Devore indicated to me that it was RTC policy to confirm referrals. That turns out not to be correct, but that is what he told us. Senator SHELBY. What could you, what was your recommendation that Mr. LINDSEY. My recommendation Senator SHELBY. No comment or Mr. LINDSEY. My recommendation was Senator SHELBY. You weren't going to deny it, though, were you? Mr. LINDSEY. No. If he felt strongly that we should respond, then I suggested that he should indicate to Mr. Gerth that whatever had come to Washington had been sent on to Little Rock, but that he should not in any way confirm to Mr. Gerth that there were, in fact, referrals because it just didn't seem to be proper. Senator SHELBY. Mr. Gerth is that? Mr. LINDSEY. Gerth, G-e-r-t-h. Senator SHELBY. Did he characterize in his inquiry if these were criminal referrals or did he know that, or do you recall? Mr. LINDSEY. I don't recall. My memorandum says "criminal referrals," but I don't have any recollection that these words were used. I could look at my contemporaneous notes. Senator SHELBY. Do you want to go look at your notes? [Witness reviewed the document.] Mr. LINDSEY. The word "referral" does not appear in my handwritten notes so I do not know what Mr. Gerth understood. Senator SHELBY. Mr. Lindsey, have you ever seen copies of those four cashier's checks? Mr. LINDSEY. Well, there weren't four cashier's checks, but yes, I've seen copies of the checks. Senator SHELBY. You've said there were four, reading your deposition. Mr. LINDSEY. That's what Mr. Gerth said. Senator SHELBY. OK In fact these were your words, let me-you be right here. I'll correct that, "he understood," this is you, "he" being Gerth, "that the referrals involved" or one of them, at least, involved- he said that? Mr. LINDSEY. That's correct. Senator SHELBY. How many checks were there, in fact? Mr. LINDSEY. There were three cashier's checks and one personal check. Senator SHELBY. Three cashier's checks and who were these checks made to? Mr. LINDSEY. I'll have to look at my note. I don't know wheth- 452 Senator BOXER. Mr. Chairman, are we getting into a scope issue, The CHAIRMAN. No. Senator SHELBY. I was advised by Counsel that I could proceed on this. Mr. LINDSEY. They were either to Bill Clinton or the Clinton for Governor campaign. Apparently he indicated two were to Bill Clinton, two were to the Clinton for Governor campaign. Senator SHELBY. Were they written on Madison Savings & Loan? Mr. LINDSEY. I believe so, yes. Senator SHELBY. What were the dates of them? Mr. LINDSEY. Again, I'm not sure. He indicated October [April] 4th or 5th and I think that was correct. Senator SHELBY. I just saw it in your deposition. Mr. LINDSEY. I believe Mr. Gerth indicated October [April] 4th or 5th and I believe that was correct. Senator SHELBY. Did anyone else-I know my time is up on this round, but did anyone else Senator D'AMATO. Let me suggest, if I might, Mr. Chairman, why don't you start the clock and we'll yield a Senator SHELBY. A couple of minutes? Senator DAMATO. Absolutely, take your time. Senator MURRAY. Mr. Chairman, can I ask a procedural question? The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Senator MURRAY. It's 9:30 p.m. and these panels have been here for 61/2 hours. We have another panel to go yet tonight and we have your commitment to get that panel tonight. What is your intention from here? The CHAIRMAN. My intention is to get to that final witness as quickly as possible and as soon as Senators are to the point where they are not seeking to ask additional questions to these witnesses then Senator MURRAY. I just wanted to raise the humanity issue. We have had dinner, they haven't. The CHAIRMAN. I should say now that there's been, you know, an interruption for this purpose that-and I'll come right back to you, Senator Shelby- that my indication is that except for brief comment right now Senator BRYAN. Mr. Chairman, I'm so eager to get to Mr. Nussbaum the same day that this hearing began that I'm happy to yield back any of my time. The CHAIRMAN. I have no other requests on my side at this point unless something detonates Senator D'AMATO. We have several other Senator SHELBY, If the Senator from New York would yield 2 minutes to me, I will try not to use the whole 2 minutes. Senator DAMATO. No, I will not. I will give you what time we have allocated and you can use whatever portion you want to finish your inquiry. Senator SHELBY. I thank the Senator. At the meeting, Mr. Lindsey; Ms. Hanson, Treasury General Counsel, just to set the record straight-again, Jack DeVore; Joshua Steiner, Chief of Staff to the Secretary of the Treasury; Bernard 453 Nussbaum; Mr. Neal Eggleston; Clifford Sloan; Bruce Lindsey yourself and Mark Gearan. Mr. LINDSEY. I don't believe that Mr. Steiner was the Chief of Staff to the Secretary Senator SHELBY. Right. But he was in this meeting, was he not, on October. Mr. LINDSEY. I don't believe he was Chief of Staff to the Secretary at that time. Senator SHELBY. But he was at the meeting in whatever capacity, he was over from Treasury? Mr. LINDSEY. That's correct. Senator SHELBY. Whatever, he'd been promoted after that? Mr. LINDSEY. I think that's correct.