August 4, 1994 - Part 11
August 4, 1994 - Part 11
(21:20:39) Senator SHELBY. That's right and at that meeting Jean Hanson, the Treasury's General Counsel; Jack DeVore, Assistant Secretary of Treasury for Public Relations at the Treasury-he was then-retired then, he was there; Joshua Steiner, Chief of Staff to the Secretary of the Treasury, Bernard Nussbaum, he was there. Neal Eggleston was there, Associate Counsel to the President. Clifford Sloan, Associate Counsel to the President. You, Mr. Lindsey, the Assistant to the President's Senior Advisors and Mark Gearan; is that correct? Mr. LINDSEY. Correct. Senator SHELBY. You were asked about the referrals, I think someone-was he a writer with The New York Times, Jeff Gerth? Mr. LINDSEY. Yes, sir. Senator SHELBY, Are you familiar with this? Mr. LINDSEY. Yes, sir. Senator SHELBY. I believe he had inquired about some of thehad criminal referrals been made without getting into the substance. Mr. LINDSEY. But he did get into the substance. Senator SHELBY. Sorry? Mr. LINDSEY, He did get into the substance. He clearly indicated that he was aware that there were criminal referrals. He had a question about where the referrals had gone. Senator SHELBY. OK. Mr. LINDSEY. But he also asked about four checks. He said that he was aware that one of the referrals mentioned senator SHELBY. First, about the referrals, was he asking him why the referrals were not made to Little Rock to the U.S. Attorney's office? Mr. LINDSEY. Yes. Senator SHELBY. And what was your response, what was the conversation about there then? I Mr. LINDSEY. Mr. DeVore indicated to us that, in fact, apparently Senator SHELBY. This is a meeting-I don't mean to interrupt you now, but this was a meeting with all these people that I just related the names at the White House to try to get together to deal with this situation; is that right? Mr. LINDSEY. Jack DeVore apparently indicated that he wanted to come to the White House to discuss with us 450 Senator SHELBY. He's the Public Relations Officer with the' Treasury Department-or Assistant Secretary dealing with public' relations. Mr. LINDSEY. Yes, sir. Senator SHE SHELBY. OK. But he didn't come alone then, he brought Ms. Hanson, Mr. Steiner, and then all the lawyers including Mr. Nussbaum, Counsel for the President, all of you-all were there; is that right? Mr. LINDSEY. I was invited to the meeting, I didn't set it up, and I don't know who invited whom. Mr. DeVore indicated that he had',,.. had a phone conversation, I believe the day before, from Jeff Gerth; that Mr. Gerth was aware that there was referrals; that Mr. Gerth understood that those referrals had gone to Washington; and that Mr. Gerth was aware that at least one of the referrals involved four checks. Senator SHELBY. Four cashier's checks. Mr. LINDSEY. That was his understanding. Senator SHELBY, I believe this was yours-your words, if I can read them back to you just to refresh your recollection, "that he," Mr. Gerth, "knew that these particular referrals"-this is on page 74 of your deposition, Mr. Lindsey- "had been referred to Washington, that he understood"--"he" being Mr. Gerth, the writer of The Now York Times-"that the referrals involved or one of the referrals at least involved four cashier's checks, two made payable to Bill Clinton and two made payable to the Clinton for President Committee-Clinton for Governor Committee." These are your words; is that correct? Mr. LINDSEY. That's correct, that's my deposition. Senator SHELBY. OK. Now what transpired after that in this meeting, you- all were trying to decide how to deal with this? Mr. LINDSEY, Mr. DeVore indicated that he wanted to get back to Mr. Gerth. He wanted to indicate to Mr. Gerth that in fact the referrals had come to Washing-ton but that they had been forwarded on to Little Rock prior to Mr. Gerth's call. So there would be no suggestion that they were being bottled up or that somehow Mr. Gerth's call had caused them to be Senator SHELBY. Mr. Lindsey, just for the record here tonight, who was the U.S. Attorney in Little Rock, Arkansas? Mr. LINDSEY. At this point, I assume Paula Casey. Senator SHELBY. And what happened? Did she recuse herself from those cases? Mr. LINDSEY. She did, yes, sir. Senator SHELBY. And that's why they were referred back to Washington? Mr. LINDSEY. No, as I understand it. Senator SHELBY. Or was 1 getting ahead? Mr. LINDSEY. I think you're ahead. Again, I don't know this. MY understanding is that before they went to the U.S. Attorney's office in Little Rock, they came to Washington-for what reason I have no idea, but that they had gone on to the U.S. Attorney. He wanted to tell Mr. Gerth this so that Mr. Gerth wouldn't write that they were somehow being bottled up in Washington. He also wanted to confirm that there were referrals. Senator SHELBY. Did you suggest after-this is Mr. DeVore? 451 Mr. LINDSEY. That's correct. Senator SHELBY. He wanted to confirm to Jeff Gerth of The New York Times, that there had been, in fact, referrals? Mr. LINDSEY. That's correct. Senator SHELBY. Criminal referrals. Why did you suggest that he not do that, but you did; is that right? Mr. LINDSEY. I did because I believed that referrals were confidential documents and that we should not be confirming the fact of referrals to reporters. He indicated to me