August 4, 1994 - Part 10
August 4, 1994 - Part 10
(20:45:18) Now, I share with the Senator from New Mexico, and he and I have talked about it, some questions about the recusal questionwhat was going on, what was in somebody's head? But the Senator has asked a question and there was a heated exchange toward the end here based on the notion that somehow Mr. Ickes and his attorneys have cooked up this concept of the notes which with the arrival of my good friend have been usurped over here. I just want to go into that for a minute, because I think you have to look at this in its full context, both on the facts as they are presented with respect to who did what and also on reality, just sort of a commonsense reality that we're called on to apply to it. And we went through this earlier, I may not have been as clear as I should have been, but on this question of Mr. Ickes' testimony and what he knew with respect to the tolling agreement and where things were going to go. The fact is that Mr. Altman has testified differently. A number of other witnesses-let me be very specific here. Ms. Kulka and perhaps she's the most important of all because Ms. Kulka ran the investigation, Ms. Kulka we have all agreed came to us as somebody that we judged was of high integrity, independent, and didn't have any ox in this except wanting to do her job as a professional. Ms. Kulka said to us it was impossible-these are her wordsit was impossible for anybody to understand, for Mr. Altman to transfer information, that we couldn't finish our investigation in time because that was not the fact. Now I know none of you disagree. That was her testimony, So we have her testimony saying it's impossible. We have Mr. Ryan saying impossible, couldn't have done it. Now that's the state of the evidence. But in addition to that state of the evidence, that you could not have transferred this information and, therefore, Mr. Ickes must have been mistaken in whatever he interpreted, you now have contemporaneous notes of Mr. Ickes himself. Now, Mr. Ickes, let me ask you, you are under oath. I mean these notes were made at the same time as the meeting? Mr. ICKES. Are you looking at typewritten transcript, Senator? Senator KERRY. I'm looking at the typewritten transcription, but the handwritten notes dated 2/2/94 were in fact made on 2/2/94? Mr. ICKES. Yes, they were, Senator Kerry. Senator KERRY. Let me suggest, if my friend from New Mexico was indeed concocting up a great conspiracy, you, at least, think ,.the lawyers were smart enough to cover the bases and they would 'Come her here with notes that also mentioned the recusal. But it mention the recusal. At least to this Senator, this lends sort Of some authenticity to the notion that this represented contemnotes at least as to the things that it covers. Now I go one step further than that. Another witness who testified here, Ms. Hanson, specifically said to us, very early on in the process of depositions, that she prepared the talking points for Mr. Altman. Mr. Ickes has testified that those talking points were read and Mr. Altman used them and looked down at his sheet of paper and Ms. Hanson, who was at the meeting specifically said to us he read through the items. At one point I expanded on a piece of the on the statute of limitations but as Mr. Altman was "reading through the talking points. 440 Now, I say to my friend from New Mexico, you then 90 to the talking points. The talking points say specifically it is not certain the analysis will be completed, but it will be before February 28th. So when my friend offers a question based on the facts, I think it ought to take all the facts into account. Now, you may want to test his memory beyond that and that is certainly fair, but what did Mr. Ickes' notes say, "contemporaneous"? They say that teh--- there's an A, B, C--"A, last date for RTC to reach conclusion, any claim for potential misconduct or fraud re: any other parties, I$ or "B, commence litigation to preserve claim," that is, as it's called, a protective suit, and "C, a tolling agreement." Now that brings us to the political reality issue that I raise. The Senator's been here a long time, he knows the politics of this place better than I do. Senator D'Amato was in the middle of a very visible, well covered and clever countdown. It is