August 4, 1994 - Part 10
August 4, 1994 - Part 10
(20:00:28) Let me put it this way, Mr. Stephanopoulos. We're talking about a pretty important matter. We're talking about a call that you admit that you were irritated about and, to be quite candid, I could understand that. I could understand the perspective that someone who is a partisan in the political arena and who can be suspect as it relates to his independence is now placed in a very sensitive position. I understand that. So I understand your feelings as it relates to that. But listen to the testimony as it relates to the diary of Josh Steiner. He says, and I'm paraphrasing, that these guys even wanted us to fire him, and I told George. I persuaded him that it's crazy, no. Now, I want to ask you, is it your testimony under oath, and I tell you there's no way you could forget this, one way or the otherexcuse me, in my opinion, in my opinion, this is not the kind of thing that someone could forget given the incredible publicity that followed within a relatively short period of time. Time magazine, stories following. We're not talking about an incident that took place or getting rid of somebody or not getting rid of somebody. We're not talking about nuances. The question is did you ask Mr. Steiner--or no--Mr. Altman to find a way to fire or get rid of Mr. Stephens? Yes or no. Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Senator, what happened in that conversation is what I said in my testimony, what I've said hundreds of times, I will repeat it again Senator DAMATO. I don't want you to repeat Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I've answered your questions time and time again, Senator. Senator KERRY. Mr. Chairman, it is absolutely unfair for a U. S. Senator to cut off a witness simply because he doesn't like his answer. Senator D'AMATO. That's not the case, Senator. Senator KERRY. Yes, it is the case. Senator DAMATO. No, it's not. It is because the answer has been nonresponsive. Senator KERRY. I beg to differ with the Senator, politely with the Senator. Senator D'AMATO. Then I'm making the point that something that's so critical---- Senator KERRY. Mr. Chairman, I'm trying to make a point. Senator DAMATO. You're doing it on my time. Senator KERRY. Mr. Stephanopoulos-and we can go back to the record. On several occasions, Mr. Stephanopoulos has said in answer to the question-you said is it true or isn't it, did you or didn't you, with a huge buildup with all of the negatives, and he has said, Senator, I don't remember. That's his answer. Now, no matter how many ways you phrase it and no matter how bad you try to make it sound, he doesn't remember. And I think it's unfair when he says I don't remember to simply cut him off and rephrase all the negatives. 432 The CHAIRMAN. Well, what is your answer? Is Senator Kerry correct? Are you saying that you don't remember one way or the other and that's your testimony or can you give a direct answer? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. First of all, Senator, I think that is a di. rect answer. The CHAIRMAN. No, I mean an answer that goes beyond the fact, Is there any other answer you can give? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I can't speak to Mr. Steiner's diary. I don't know why he wrote what he wrote in his diary. I can testify to the conversation as I have, I asked him how Jay Stephens came to be hired. I was angry in that conversation. I concede that. Once he told me how Jay Stephens came to be hired by an independent never directed any. one at the Treasury Department or the RTC to interfere with this investigation in any way, and that a conclusion is corroborated by the Special Counsel Mr. Fiske and the Office of Government Ethics. The CHAIRMAN. May I ask you this? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. Absolutely. The CHAIRMAN. Just so we can be clear and take some of the heat out of it for a moment and if you will permit me. Senator DAMATO. Certainly. The CHAIRMAN. Let's take the word "directive" out of the answer. Did you say to anybody that Stephens should be fired? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. I said that Stephens had a terrible conflict of interest. I don't remember saying anything like that at all. The CHAIRMAN. So you have no memory whatsoever of saving board, that was the end of the conversation. I that he should be fired? Mr. STEPHANOPOULOS. No, I do not, sir. Senator DAMATO. Mr. Chairman, I hope my time The CHAIRMAN. Time is being restored right now. Senator D'AMATO. And I appreciate that. I'm going to make a statement on my time. I don't think it's conceivable given the history-and I'm not going to recount it-of the events, given the diary that has been presented, given the phone call that was made, given with some particularity the manner in which Steiner says, and he's talking about colleagues and friends of his-"George suggested to me we needed to find a way to get rid of him" and "persuaded George to fire him would be incredibly Stupid and improper," very precise