August 2, 1994 - Part 10
August 2, 1994 - Part 10
(00:40:47) His recusal had no impact one way or the other on what did happen or is happening today with the investigation. The only issue before us and it's a legitimate issue and it goes to the question of improper conduct is bow the issue of recusal impacts the question have happened or what was in the process conceiv-ably of happening with respect to the White House on this issue. So I conclude your failure to recuse certainly didn't affect the case, But now you have repeatedly said, Mr. Altman, and I'm truly puzzled about it and I want to explore this and what I can't finish in this round I will finish in my own round. When you went to the---- you have repeatedly described this as a hard decision, and obviously characterized as a bard decision because Josh Steiner's diaries characterize it as that. You repeatedly have said it was about a hard decision. Why was it a hard decision, what was hard about deciding to recuse yourself? 518 Mr. ALTMAN. First of all, I had been made aware that there no legal requirement to recuse that there was no ethical re ment to recuse, and the recusal decisions typically are taken a matter is ready for decision which this one wasn't. So it's no quired legally, it's not required ethically, and it's not timely either. I think, Senator, the Office of Government Ethics makes clear why this is a hard decision. It is implicitly critical of me for having done it. Now, I just think it's hard to know when whether you have a duty to serve as the Office of Government Ethics Report suggests or whether you ought to recuse as they say because it's convenient Senator KERRY. But you had already decided not to serve. Every. thing you have Mr. ALTMAN. They mean serve-well, I think they mean to serve in a legal sense. Senator KERRY. You had decided not to serve in any sense you were not going to make a decision. You were not going to receive information. You were not going to affect the case. You had decided effectively, as you called it yourself, a de facto recusal. Why, there- fore, was it hard to go beyond a de facto recusal and do a real de jure recusal? What was hard about that? to Mr. ALTMAN. It was just a purely personal matter. It seems me when you are told you don't need to do it legally, and you don't need to do it ethically, and it's not timely to do it anyway, you do say to yourself how important is it that I do it. I wouldn't have asked the advice that I asked from several different people if I had my mind made up. I didn't, and that was the day before February 2 that I asked for that advice. Senator KERRY. My time is up. I'm going to put that into a larger context. Mr. ALTMAN. Again, given the chance to do it all over again, I would have recused myself right off the bat. Senator KERRY. I understand but I want to get to this because I think it's central to why we're here and I will come back to it in my next round. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Bond. Senator BOND. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Altman we have gone past this question a number of times. I asked you who told the White House of the criminal referrals and you stated that no one in the RTC to your knowledge had done so. There have been questions about correcting the record. As far as I can tell, you have not bad an opportunity to correct the record.,, What, for the record, is the proper answer to that question I asked you on February 24? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, as you know, I said not to my knowledge. That was 100 percent truthful at the moment I said it. I received a call from Mr. Podesta. He said what about those fall meetings I said I never heard of them. He confirms that I said that. I then go through the exercise I mentioned to you in terms of calling in Ms. Hanson, Mr. Steiner what about these meetings. They didn't ;say, oh, you knew about them, didn't you, they didn't say that. I then called Senator Riegle which I thought was the right to do and I called you, which was the right thing to do. I say learned about them, I want you to know that because you, Senator 519 Bond, had asked me the question. And I'm immediately going to amend the record and I did. I prepared a letter with the help of others and Ms. Hanson approves the letter. Now Senator BOND. That's all the process, but your March 2 letter is