August 2, 1994 - Part 10
August 2, 1994 - Part 10
(00:25:24) Mr. ALTMAN. Senator you said I think that we've now established that the truth wasn't told. I respect your judgment, but that is not-I do not believe that. Let me say two quick things: First of all, I used the term "substantive contact." I meant that in relation to the RTC investigation of Madison. That is what I meant. You may not agree with that definition but that is what I meant. Second, my response to Senator Domenici may not have been a great response, but I said I'm not counting certain trivial or incidental contacts. That's what I did say. Senator GRAMM. Meeting people in the hallway you said. It was not that it wasn't a great response, Mr. Altman, the point is that it was not the truth. That is the problem. Mr. ALTMAN. No, Senator, you're wrong. My response made quite clear that there had been other contacts. I don't think you can read my response any other way than that. Senator GRAMM. I'll read it exactly. You keep going on with this evasive language. And Senator Domenici says, "Well, I assume we are not arguing there that you had-you are not suggesting you had more than one are you?" That's obvious. Did you have more than one meeting? He's not saying "Substantive meeting." In fact., he is challenging your evasive term, to which you say, "No." Now what part of no don't you understand? Mr. ALTMAN. I then go on to say, "I'm not counting-" Senator GRAMM. You go on to say, "I am just saying that if you run into someone in the all, if nu see that thing in the paper this morning, I'm not including that." You're not suggesting the meeting on November 3 was running into somebody in the hall, are you? Mr. ALTMAN. What I was trying to say, Senator, was that Senator GRAMM. Are you saying that the February 3 meeting running into somebody in the hall? Mr. ALTMAN. What I was trying to say, Senator, was that I wasn't counting contacts that I consider incidental, but let me just Senator GRAMM. Incidental? You call up and ask somebody to let come over to the White House to talk to them, and call that incidental? Mr. ALTMAN. Had nothing to do with the RTC investigation of Senator GRAMM. I want to stop, because I want to get to my questions. ALTMAN. I do want to say, Senator, if I misinterpreted the question, I do apologize, I do, Senator GRAMM. No one with your background and education intellect could have, in my opinion, misinterpreted that question. Both of us know something about securities law. You made your living, and a good living, at it, I might say. Securities law requires full disclosure of anything that a reasonable man would con- sider material in making a decision. A material omission of fact is 514 just as much a violation as a misstatement. That is the principle-", that governs a profession you have been in most of your life. Now I want to ask my question. Mr. ALTMAN. You remember, of course, that Mr. Fiske looked into this. Senator GRAMM. Two hours ago I tried to talk about this meeting that you asked for on February 3. 1 said that it appeared to me from sworn testimony that Maggie Williams said you called her to set it up. You said that you called Mr. Ickes to set it up. it seems to me that maybe the logic is that you would have called Mr. Ickes, because he is the Deputy Chief of Staff, whereas Maggie Williams works for the First Lady. So maybe you were right on that, but I want again to read what Maggie Williams says you said. "Well, Roger called me and be said to me, I've decided not to recuse. And he said I want to tell some people in the White House' that. And I mean I remember thinking to myself so tell them. And then he said I'm on my way to a meeting, but I would like to get a few people together and tell them and I thought OK And he said could you grab a few people and get a few people or call a few peo- le and I said OK" Then she goes on to say that she called Harold, Geoge, and Eggleston. You remember that you set this up with Ickes, and I guess that makes more sense, because he worked for the President and the White House, not for the First Lady. Where was the meeting? Mr. ALTMAN. The meeting was in the West Wing. I can't remember precisely where it was. Senator GRAMM. The meeting was in Maggie Williams' office, and we have four sworn statements to that effect. Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, I believe I called Mr. Ickes. I believe that firmly, that's my best recollection and I believe it to be true. Senator GRAMM. Can I ask you a question? Let's assume that Mace Williams is not telling a falsehood, and let's assume that, in act, if it was in her office, the odds are probable that she's right and you're wrong. Most people don't--I don't set up meetings in Mr. D'Amato's office, but let's just assume she's right. Why on earth would you call the Chief of Staff of the First Lady of the United States to talk about this issue?