August 2, 1994 - Part 4
August 2, 1994 - Part 4
(12:10:43) Mr. FOREMAN. Senator, that would not have much of an impact because the connection with the recusal has to do with the later action in time. The later action in time never, in fact, happened so this was an ethics discussion that I've heard much of today and over the last few months, about an action that was never taken. So I think it's open season for people to comment on the recusal. Senator ROTH. Let me go forward. In a conversation on February 4, 1994, with Assistant White House Counsel and Deputy White House Ethics Officer, Beth Nolan, regarding Mr. Altman removing himself from decisions relating to Madison, isn't it true that you told Ms. Nolan that the two of you should not consider whether Mr. Altman should recuse himself because of the appearance of a conflict of interest under what is called the discretionary standard, but rather that you would only consider the formal or required disqualification standards? Mr. FOREMAN. No, Senator, I don't think that's an accurate rendition of our discussion. Senator ROTH. In other words, you did consider discretionary reasons as well? Mr. FOREMAN. Sure. What we were talking about was that we were starting a legal analysis to determine first-I mean, the first cut is the legal analysis to see if there's a legal requirement to recuse. After that, it there's a legal requirement to recuse, you don't have to discuss discretion. But if the legal analysis led to a situation that it would be a discretionary call, then you look into the discretionary factors so it's sort of a two-stage process. Senator ROTH. Finally, as you said earlier, we should learn from this experience. Let me ask you, would you agree or disagree that, as a general rule, it is advisable for a Federal employee to recuse himself or herself from an investigation involving the President if the individual is a personal friend of the President? Mr. FOREMAN. Senator, I'm sorry, but I cannot, as a general rule, endorse that proposition. I think that it always remains to look at the circumstances of any given situation. I think that's generally a good idea for appearances. That was my first advice in this situation, in act, that Mr. Altman recuse himself, but I'm a little concerned about general rules. Senator ROTH. That was my question. You do think as a general impression that is desirable? Mr. FOREMAN. Yes, Senator, as a general impression and maybe even a presumption, that may be something that people could look at in the future. I'm a little opposed to general rules that say never, because you're never sure what the circumstances -might be. 403 senator ROTH. Doesn't the word "general" imply that there can be exceptions? Mr. FOREMAN. Yes, Senator, that's probably correct. senator ROTH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Boxer. Senator BOXER, Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to make some closing comments. I trust I may not use up all my time but I feel compelled to respond to some of the comments of my friend from Texas, Senator Gramm. He says, well, we've seen a look at this Administration through this prism of Whitewater. Those are my words, prism of Whitewater, and be says, what do you see and be goes on to paint an awful picture. Well I think it's important to note for the American people that this is one issue. The Clinton Administration has been dealing with tens, if not hundreds, of issues that really affect the American people. The crime bill, decreasing the deficit, an economic strategy, job creation, welfare reform, health reform, and many other issues. Making progress on many fronts, yes, maybe stumbling on some and coming back but stepping up to the plate on issues of real concern to the American people. Now, I don't think it's a surprise that for most of these bearings, the chairs in this audience have gone empty. The American people are smart. Yes, they want us to do our job. I'm not saying they didn't want to have us look at this. I think we had to do that. (15:40:48)(tape #10069 begins) But I think what's important here is not to make these sweeping statements about an Administration because of this one problem.