August 2, 1994 - Part 4
August 2, 1994 - Part 4
(11:55:25) Senator BOND. You sat there in silence and watched the tape. She wrote some things down and then you departed? Mr. FOREMAN. To the best of my recollection, that's correct. Senator BOND. You sat there and watched the tape, you the Ethics Officer, she the General Counsel, you watched that tape, which obviously had some real problems, has been the source of a lot of discussion, and you did not make any Mr. FOREMAN. Senator Senator BOND. -statements. Mr. FOREMAN. I don't remember whose office the tape machine was in. I remember it was in the front office area. I remember walking into the office, seeing the tape on, seeing it having something to do with your questions and answers and that at the questions and answers had something to do with the criminal referrals. I didn't know anything, at that time, about the criminal referrals and didn't learn about them until March. Senator BOND. You walked out and had no discussion? Mr. FOREMAN. I did not have any discussion with her, sir. That's all I remember. Senator BOND. That's truly amazing. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Bond. Senator Kerry, you're next in the order here. Senator KERRY. Let me just ask YOU, following up on that for a minute, whose tape was it? Who had this tape? Mr. FOREMAN. Me. Senator KERRY. Who arranged for it being played? Mr. FOREMAN. I don't remember. I had an interest in the hearing but I didn't have enough time to watch the tape. I taped it over the weekend. I have a couple of VCR's, if it was the weekend, Thursday night, or the weekend. I brought it into the office. One of our secretaries probably got the VCR. I had it playing in the background of my office during the day, and I watched snatches and Senator KERRY. What was the purpose of it being played? Mr. FOREMAN. I was interested, obviously-there were news stories about it, and I bad some interest in it, but I didn't have the time or involvement to study it. Senator KERRY. Who did? Mr. FOREMAN. I don't know that anybody did. I remember Senator KERRY. Why was it being played? Was it that entertaining? Was it that much fun to watch? Mr. FOREMAN. I bad it playing in the background, sir, and I was listening to it in the background while I did my other work. 398 Senator KERRY. You put on a tape of a congressional hearing to listen in the background while you were doing your work? [Laughter.] That s probably a first in Washington. Senator DODD. Are you sleeping on the job? Senator KERRY. Are you an insomniac? [Laughter.] Mr. FOREMAN. Senator, I try to keep abreast of things that are In in the news. I don't always have time to do the kind of things I need to. I just thought if I had it going on in the background, I would hear part of it. Senator KERRY. How did Ms. Hanson happen to come to the office? Does she customarily come into your office to view the tapes you're watching during the day? Mr. FOREMAN. We are in each other's offices all the time. I don't remember at all how this conversation, or nonconversation I should say, sir, started. I remember at some point Ms. Hanson and I were in the same room and she was looking for a particular section of Senator Bond's question-and-answer session. She found apparently what she was interested in wrote down some questions Senator KERRY. Did she know you had a tape of the entire hearing? Mr. FOREMAN. Excuse me, Senator. Senator KERRY. Did she know you had a tape of the entire hearing. Mr. FOREMAN. I assume so. Senator KERRY. Clearly, if she had been interested in dealing with prior portions of the testimony besides Senator Bond's questions she could have zapped the tape back to that portion also; correct? Mr. FOREMAN. I guess that's correct, sure. Senator KERRY. Then the notion that the testimony was unavailable to her, which she suggested to us yesterday, is not, in fact, accurate because she had a tape of the testimony. Mr. FOREMAN. Well sir I think that's correct. There was a tape there. I don't know if you've ever tried to deal with a 4- or 5- or 6-hour session like today's session And try to deal with a lot of it on tape, I can't say. Senator KERRY. This was 10 pages apart. It was page 55 and page 66, 1 think. That's not very much to zap back if you're interested. Mr. FOREMAN. Senator, I don't know. Senator KERRY. Let me ask you, Mr. Steiner, a couple questions if I could quickly. Did you view the- you mentioned about the graceful duck in your diary, and I wonder you viewed the lack of completeness in the testimony, whether you characterized it as a graceful duck as an omission, or whatever. You were aware that it was not a full, fair, and accurate answer because you knew the recusal issue was talked about but was not included; correct? Mr. STEINER. Senator, I was not referring to the recusal issue. I was referring to the issue of White House-Treasury contacts. Senator KERRY. Fair enough. You knew the contacts had been made but he hadn't mentioned them; correct? Mr. STEINER. That's correct. 399 Senator KERRY. In addition, you also knew, with respect to Senator Bond's question, that recusal had certainly been discussed in the context of the meeting at the White House; correct?