August 2, 1994 - Part 4
August 2, 1994 - Part 4
(11:05:36) Mr. STEINER. Senator, I wrote that and I take responsibility for writing it. What I'm doing today is give you as best I can, my recollection of the conversation that took place, and as I've said before, my intention in keeping this diary was not to give you a precise narrative of the events that occurred. I often use shorthand. Senator HATCH. But this was written 2 days after the event, and it was close in time, and this was what your recollection was then correct? Mr. STEINER. Senator, as I said Senator HATCH. Yes or no. Mr. STEINER. Senator, as I said, my effort was not necessarily to put down my precise recollection of events that occurred. The purpose for which you keep a document matters. Senator HATCH. That's not the point. My point is, is that true or isn't it? Mr. STEINER. Senator Senator HATCH. Is your diary entry true or isn't it? Mr. STEINER. I have tried to testify today as best I can my recollection of the conversation that took place. Senator HATCH. All right. Also on February 25 you were in Mr. Altman's office when Harold Ickes and George Stephanopoulos were on the phone with him; right? Mr. STEINER. That's correct, Senator. Senator HATCH, You understood from hearing Mr. Altman's side of the conversation and from what Mr. Altman said to you afterwards that Mr. Stephanopoulos and Mr. Ickes were upset that the RTC had hired Jay Stephens; right? Mr. STEINER. That's correct, Senator. Senator HATCH. Now, it's true, isn't it, that you told Jean Hanson that you thought it was incredible and inappropriate that Ellen Kulka had hired Jay Stephens? Mr. STEINER. I don't recall saying that to her, no. Senator HATCH. Could you have said it? Mr. STEINER. As I said, Senator, I don't recall saying it to her. Senator HATCH. It's also true, isn't it, you asked Jean Hanson whether the RTC civil action could be given to the Whitewater Special Counsel, Robert Fiske, rather than be handled by Ellen Kulka or Jay Stephens, Mr. STEINER. I don't recall saying it at that time, no, Senator. Senator HATCH. Well, do you deny that you made that suggestion to Ms. Hanson? 382 Mr. STEINER. I recall a conversation, I cannot place it directly in time, but I do not believe it was then, Senator, where there was discussion as to whether the RTC should turn over the civil case to Mr. Fiske. I do not believe it took place on February 25. Senator HATCH. Did you think it was incredible and inappropriate that Ellen Kulka had hired Jay Stephens? Mr. STEINER. I thought it was surprising that the RTC had hired Mr. Stephens, yes. Senator HATCH. You fully understood that the RTC retained the decisionmaking power even though they had hired Stephens? He couldn't do anything they didn't approve of Did you understand that? Mr. STEINER. I was not aware, Senator, of how investigations got carried out in any detail at the RTC. Senator HATCH. Is it also true that you told Jean Hanson that you thought that Ellen Kulka should be fired for having hired Jay Stephens. Mr. STEINER. I do not recall saying that to Ms. Hanson, no. Senator HATCH. That's what Ms. Hanson says. She' says here yesterday "in fact, Joshua Steiner, the Chief of Staff to Secretary of Treasury, Bentsen, had told you"-this is my question-"that he thought Ellen Kulka should be fired for hiring Stephens didn't he?'. Ms. Hanson said: "Yes, he did." Do you recall that at all? Mr. STEINER. No, I do not. Senator HATCH. Who suggested to you the possibility of Mr. Fiske taking over the RTC civil action, Podesta, Stern, Stephanopoulos, Ickes, or Altman? Mr. STEINER. I don't recall if anyone suggested it to me, Senator. Senator HATCH. You're not a lawyer, are you, Mr. Steiner. Mr. STEINER. No, I'm not. Senator HATCH. Were you aware that according to the testimony from Lloyd Cutler, President Clinton was aware of Jay, Stephens's hiring at this time and had expressed concerns to Harold Ickes.: about the hiring? Mr. STEINER. No, I was not aware at the time, Senator, Senator HATCH. Did Mr. Fiske or his staff ask you whether George Stephanopoulos bad suggested to you that you needed to" find a way to get rid of Jay Stephens? Mr. STEINER, I was interviewed by Mr. Fiske's staff, and I testified before the Grand Jury, Senator. I recall that this topic came up. I cannot recall the precise questions that they asked me, and I also, not being a lawyer, would want to be careful to ensure that I protected the privacy of the Grand Jury. Senator HATCH. Did Mr. Fiske or his staff ask you whether you; told Jean Hanson that Ellen Kulka should be fired? Mr. STEINER. I don't recall that question being asked, no, sir. Senator HATCH. Did Mr. Fiske or his staff ask you whether you inquired of Ms. Hanson whether Mr. Fiske could take over investigation of Madison Guaranty? Mr. STEINER. I do not recall being asked that question, Senator HATCH. Then Mr. Fiske may not have been as in his investigation as he's indicated in the past.