Whitewater Hearings July 25, 1995 Testimony of Patsy Thomasson
Whitewater Hearings July 25, 1995 Testimony of Patsy Thomasson
Whitewater Hearings July 25, 1995 - Testimony of Patsy Thomasson.
Whitewater Hearings July 25, 1995 Testimony of Patsy Thomasson
Senator Al D Amato (R New York). Mr. Chertoff. Michael Chertoff, attorney. Did you just tell us that your lawyer told you that Mr. Nussbaum had not recalled going in with you the first time, but only coming in the second time? Patsy Thomasson. That's my understanding of what my lawyer told me, yes. Michael Chertoff, attorney. I'm going to read to you from Mr. Nussbaum's deposition on page 42 and let's see if this is what you have in your' mind as your impression of the inconsistency. This is to Mr. Nussbaum. Question: When you went in the suite for the first time that evening after you had seen the President and you were going back to the West Wing, it's your testimony that Ms. Thomasson and Ms. Williams were already there? Answer: That's correct, Question: You did not take them into the suite? Answer. My memory is that they were already there. I did not take them into the suite. Was it your understanding that that was his testimony or that he merely didn't recall the first time coming in with you? Patsy Thomasson. It was a very quick discussion yesterday. As I recall, what my attorney said was that Bernie did not recall having been in the suite with me when I initially went into the suite.
Whitewater Hearings July 25, 1995 Testimony of Patsy Thomasson
Michael Chertoff, attorney. When you went up to the suite after you arrived at the White House, you've testified that as it happened, the suite was open because the cleaning personnel were there, right? Patsy Thomasson. That's correct. Michael Chertoff, attorney. Were you prepared to go into Vincent Foster's office with or without Bernie Nussbaum? Patsy Thomasson. I knew, I was prepared to go to that suite and look for that note, yes, sir. Michael Chertoff, attorney. You would not have hesitated to go into the suite, into Mr. Foster's office, open his drawers, open his briefcase, look at his papers alone without anybody from the White House Counsel's Office present, correct? Patsy Thomasson. That's not correct, sir. It was my intent to find someone to go in there with me, sir. Michael Chertoff, attorney. I'm sorry. You're telling us now that you had the intention to find someone to go in with you? Patsy Thomasson. I've never said any differently from that, Mr. Chertoff. When I saw Mr. Nussbaum, I asked him to go with me. Had he not been there to go with me, I would have asked someone to go in with me. Michael Chertoff, attorney. I thought your testimony earlier was you went by the Secret Service post and you didn't notify them, right? Patsy Thomasson. I wouldn't have asked somebody from the Secret Service, sir. Michael Chertoff, attorney. Why not? Patsy Thomasson. I would have asked somebody from the White House to go with me. Michael Chertoff, attorney. Doesn't the Secret Service work at the White House? Patsy Thomasson. Yes, sir, they work at the White House, but I would have asked a White House staff person to go with me. Michael Chertoff, attorney. Isn't the Secret Service trustworthy? Patsy Thomasson. Oh, yes, sir. They're very trustworthy. Michael Chertoff, attorney. Aren't they discrete? Patsy Thomasson. Yes, sir. Michael Chertoff, attorney. Is there some reason you didn't want to have a Secret Service agent present when you conducted the search? Patsy Thomasson. I did not know whether there were any Secret Service agents there. There were a number of uniformed division agents who work at specific posts, but they wouldn't be able to leave those posts to go with me anywhere. Michael Chertoff, attorney. There was no uniformed service division officer you could request to have come up there and meet you at the White House Counsel's Office? Patsy Thomasson. I'm sure that I could have called the control center. At that time I didn't know to call the control center to get another Secret Service agent. I didn't understand that process at the time. I knew that there were certain Secret Service uniformed division agents who had specific locations where they had to be and they can't leave those posts. I wasn't prepared to ask one of them to leave his post to go with me. I was prepared to ask somebody from the White House staff to go with me.
Whitewater Hearings July 25, 1995 Testimony of Patsy Thomasson
Michael Chertoff, attorney. At this point you were Mr. Watkins' Deputy? Patsy Thomasson. That's correct. Michael Chertoff, attorney. He was responsible for management and administration? Patsy Thomasson. That's correct. Michael Chertoff, attorney. You were his number two in that job? Patsy Thomasson. That's correct. Michael Chertoff, attorney. You're telling us you were not in a position to request the Secret Service send someone over from the uniformed division to accompany you in the suite? Patsy Thomasson. I'm telling you I would have asked someone from the White House staff to go with me, sir. Michael Chertoff, attorney. As you testified earlier, when you got to the White House, you didn't know who was around, right? Patsy Thomasson. No, sir, I didn't. Michael Chertoff, attorney. Is your testimony now you were going to search for somebody to go with you into the suite before you went into the suite? Patsy Thomasson. I didn't think I would have a problem finding someone at the White House because there would be people there. Michael Chertoff, attorney. But you didn't make any arrangement? Patsy Thomasson. No, sir, I didn't. Michael Chertoff, attorney. Were there certain people you would have brought in and certain people you wouldn't have brought in? Patsy Thomasson. I don't think I would have been particularly selective about it, no, sir. Michael Chertoff, attorney. Did you make a conscious decision to avoid bringing someone from Secret Service or some law enforcement type agency in with you? Patsy Thomasson. No, sir.
Whitewater Hearings July 25, 1995 Testimony of Patsy Thomasson
Michael Chertoff, attorney. About how long was it from the time you arrived at the White House until the time you went to the suite? Patsy Thomasson. I don't know, Michael Chertoff, attorney. It would have been 10 or 15 minutes probably. Michael Chertoff, attorney. You got back to your office at 11:36 down below, correct? Patsy Thomasson. Sometime before 11:36. Michael Chertoff, attorney. Once you got to your office, you didn't waste time in calling Mr. Watkins? Patsy Thomasson. I didn't call Mr. Watkins, I paged Mr. Watkins. Michael Chertoff, attorney. You didn't waste time in paging Mr. Watkins? Patsy Thomasson. I don't know now, Mr. Chertoff, whether I paged him on my computer or whether I called the White House operator to have him paged. If I paged him from my computer, I would have had to wait long enough for my computer to be booted up and turn itself on. It is a more accurate way to send a page than sending one through the White House operator because you can see the screen and you know exactly what message you send. Michael Chertoff, attorney. My question is still you didn't hesitate, delay or Patsy Thomasson. No, I did not. Michael Chertoff, attorney. Or waste time in sending this message? Patsy Thomasson. No, I did not. Michael Chertoff, attorney. You knew it was important to Mr. Watkins? Patsy Thomasson. Yes, I did. Michael Chertoff, attorney. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Whitewater Hearings July 25, 1995 Testimony of Patsy Thomasson
Senator Al D Amato (R New York). Senator Paul Sarbanes (D Maryland). Senator Paul Sarbanes (D Maryland). Ms. Thomasson, these questions Mr. Chertoff asked you were all hypothetical. You went to the White House and you ran into Bernie Nussbaum, correct? Patsy Thomasson. Yes, sir. Senator Paul Sarbanes (D Maryland). So all these questions about who you would have found or what you would have done or who else you might have gone in with are really moot in this instance? Patsy Thomasson. Yes, sir. Senator Paul Sarbanes (D Maryland). Those issues never presented themselves to you, did they? Patsy Thomasson. No, sir, they did not. Senator Paul Sarbanes (D Maryland). When you got there you ran into him, I take it, on the first floor? Patsy Thomasson. Yes, sir. Senator Paul Sarbanes (D Maryland). after you went from your basement office, now he was the White House Counsel? Patsy Thomasson. Yes, sir, Senator Paul Sarbanes (D Maryland). He was Foster's partner? Patsy Thomasson. Absolutely. Senator Paul Sarbanes (D Maryland). He was the one who had access. It was his suite, in effect. Foster had an office next to Nussbaum in the White House Counsel's suite, correct? Patsy Thomasson. Yes, sir.
Whitewater Hearings July 25, 1995 Testimony of Patsy Thomasson
Senator Paul Sarbanes (D Maryland). Senator Dodd. Senator Chris Dodd (D Connecticut). Mr. Chairman, I don't know if counsel has some additional questions, but I'll be glad to defer to him. Richard Ben-Veniste, attorney. Very briefly, Ms. Thomasson, the purpose of my question is about inconsistencies. This isn't the first forum that you have given this explanation to, is it? Patsy Thomasson. No, sir. Richard Ben-Veniste, attorney. You have given testimony as requested, I presume, to the FBI and to one or more Independent Counsels about this very same fact situation? Patsy Thomasson. Yes, sir. Richard Ben-Veniste, attorney. Now, my question to you before was, and I'll, put it to you again for purposes of closure on this issue is whether at any point you made any concerted effort to get together with the other individuals who you saw the evening of the 20th to get a uniform story ironed out and straight with no discrepancies? Patsy Thomasson. No, sir, we've never done that. Richard Ben-Veniste, attorney. I don't have anything further.