July 25, 1995 - Part 5
July 25, 1995 - Part 5
(16:00:45) Ms. THOMASSON. Only Mr. Nussbaum, sir, that I recall. Senator KERRY. Who was present at that time? Ms. THOMASSON. He was walking back and forth-he walked up while I was talking to some of the others and I said, Bernie, I've been asked by David to go up to Vince's office to look for a note, will you go with me? Senator KERRY. His response? Ms. THOMASSON. He walked with me. Senator KERRY. Did he say anything to you? Ms. THOMASSON. He wasn't talking very much, Senator. He was very, very upset. Mr. Nussbaum never talked very much to me because I was so low on the food chain Senator KERRY. I'm not sure what that says. Ms. THOMASSON. I did ask him to go with me that night and, as I recall, he did go up with me and we looked for the note. I looked for the note. He just paced around. He was very upset. senator KERRY. You notified the Secret Service that you were going into your office. Did you feel any need to notify them that you were going into Mr. Foster's office? Ms. THOMASSON. It was unsecured, Senator, so I didn't feel a need to notify them at that time. Senator KERRY. When did you learn it was unsecured? Ms, THOMASSON. When we got to Mr. Foster's office, the Counsel's Office. Senator KERRY. About how much time do you think had passed between you arriving in your office and your arrival in the office up there, maybe 10 minutes or so, more or less? Ms. THOMASSON. More or less, 10 minutes. Senator KERRY. Something like that? Ms. THOMASSON. Something like that. Senator KERRY. You say people were coming out of his office, cleaning personnel? Ms. THOMASSON. Yes, sir. Senator KERRY. How many personnel? Ms. THOMASSON. I only recall seeing one cleaning person coming out of his office. Senator KERRY. Male or female? Ms. THOMASSON. Female. Senator KERRY. Was she carrying anything? Ms. THOMASSON. I don't recall, Senator. Senator KERRY. Was there any discussion about leaving the office secure at that point in time? Ms. THOMASSON. There was no discussion about securing the office at that point in time. Senator KE RRY. It was all open, completely open? Ms. THOMASSON. Yes, sir, it was. 324 Senator KERRY. Was this also the area of Bernie Nussbaum's office? Ms. THOMASSON. Yes, sir. As you are entering the Counsel's suite there's one big room with, say, four or five desks and a seating area, and then to the right as you enter would be-to the right and almost at a 180-degree turn would have been Vince Foster's cubi. cle. Almost directly as you turn right going straight ahead you would have gone into Mr. Nussbaum's office. So when the office door to the secretarial space was open, the whole office was unsecured at that point in time. Senator KERRY. Understood. Since Mr. Nussbaum was still there, there was no reason for it to have been locked up at that point. Is that what you're saying? Ms. THOMASSON. I don't know whether it had been secured earlier in the evening and unsecured when Bernie came back to the White House. I don't know the sequence of events, sir. I know it was unsecured when I got up there. Senator KERRY. Again, to the best of your recollection, what was the amount of time that you spent in Mr. Foster's office? Ms. THOMASSON. About 10 minutes, sir. Senator KERRY. That was the total amount of time during which Ms. Williams and Mr. Nussbaum were with you? Ms. THOMASSON. Yes, sir. Senator KERRY. No other people came in during that period of time? Ms. THOMASSON. No, sir, not that I recall. Senator KERRY, Did you ever return to the office again during the course of that evening? Ms. THOMASSON. No, sir. Senator KERRY. Did you make any decisions or have any part in any decisions with respect to the locking of that office? Ms. THOMASSON. No, sir, I did not. Senator KERRY. Were you asked anything about the locking of it? Ms. THOMASSON. No, sir. Senator KERRY. Did you play any role whatsoever with respect to the burn bag? Ms. THOMASSON. No, sir. Senator KERRY. Did you play any role whatsoever with respect to inspection of the briefcase other than your cursory opening of the top of it? Ms. THOMASSON. No, sir. Senator KERRY. Did you overhear or take part in any conversations whatsoever that evening, subsequently, about any other entries into that office? Ms. THOMASSON. No, sir. Senator KERRY. Did you hear of any other? Ms. THOMASSON. No, sir. Senator KERRY. Thank you, The CHAIRMAN. Senator Shelby. Senator SHELBY. Thank you. Ms. Thomasson, just for a few minutes could we review the security clearance procedures at the White House, in other words, who has access to what areas of the White House and what type of security clearances they have. For 325 example, what is a blue pass? What does that mean at the White House? Ms. THOMASSON. It means you have access to the White House, sir. Anyone who works in the White House itself would have access to the White House Senator SHELBY. That would include sensitive areas in the White House? Ms. THOMASSON. Not necessarily, sir. For example, if the-a blue pass would not give you access to the situation room necessarily unless you had a job in the situation room. Senator SHELBY. Would it give you access to the White House proper? Ms. THOMASSON. Yes, sir, it would. Senator SHELBY. Including the East Wing and the West Wing office complex? Ms. THOMASSON. Yes, sir. Senator SHELBY. Does everybody at the White House generally have a security clearance? Ms. THOMASSON. Yes, sir. Senator SHELBY. On June 20, 1993, how long had you been working at the White House? Ms. THOMASSON. Since March 1st. Senator SHELBY. Since March 1st. Did you have a security clearance on Ms. THOMASSON. No, sir, I did not.