July 25, 1995 - Part 4
July 25, 1995 - Part 4
(15:05:32) Mr. GEARAN. Mr. Chairman, if I might, just to make that point in summary. It's my recollection that the purpose of the call was to discuss the actual note itself The CHAIRMAN. Sure. Mr. GEARAN. -not the files, not the search, but because it was already known by the public and the press that a note had been found, the contents of the note was of considerable interest. That was the purpose of this call and it's my recollection that that was the context of our discussion. The CHAIRMAN. Let me just make a statement here, I don't think you are being fair to yourself, and maybe not even to the Committee, because on page 134 of your deposition you say: Heymann had heated discussions on the way the documents were handled with Bernie Nussbaum. Question., That's the review process with regard to the documents? Answer: That's how I would read that, yes. So there was, it would appear, some discussion as it related to the overall handling of the documents as well as your inquiry with respect to the dissemination of the note. I just share that with you, that's at least what I get from it. In your deposition you acknowledge that; isn't that true? Mr. GEARAN. Yes, Mr. Chairman. I've acknowledged it here as well. I think Mr. Heymann was expressing that concern as well. The CHAIRMAN. In other words, Mr. Heymann did express a concern as it related to the handling of all of the documents as well as what should be done with the note; is that true? Mr. GEARAN. He said that elsewhere in the notes, that he had had, quote, heated discussions. The CHAIRMAN. OK. I just think it's important that we put that in the proper context. Senator MURKOWSKI. Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Senator MURKOWSKI. In referring to page 2 of the notes The CHAIRMAN. Senator, I'll come right back to you, but I really think because the Minority has been very, very patient Senator MURKOWSKI. Just let me make one very quick Senator SARBANES. Let's clarify this because I don't want Mr. Gearan to be Senator MURKOWSKI. I'll be very brief, Mr. Chairman. Senator SARBANES. I don't think we're trying to do that. Senator MURKOWSKI. I'll be very brief. As I read the communication of the notes of the Heymann call on page 2, "I've had heated, discussions on the way does were handled, Bernie." That implies 303 past tense a opposed to the note which is, in effect, a current in the sense of a tense. So that's why it's confusing to me as I read this and interpret documents specifically were handled as past tense, vis-a-vis note which had just been, I think, found because it was only held for what, 24 hours, so that's why I would read this to imply documents. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Sarbanes. Senator SARBANES. Mr. Gearan, do you want to elaborate on that? Mr. GEARAN. Senator, I've tried to testify to the best of my recollection as well as summarizing my notes. I guess my only, my point was this was a discussion seeking guidance from the Justice Department on how we should talk about this note. This is how we would answer press questions. Senator SARBANES. It's not inconsistent with such a discussion for Heymann to express the view that he had had heated discussions with Bernie on how the documents were handled, we know that was the case. Mr. GEARAN. No, and I think the general context of the discussion was that we should not do anything that would raise any suspicions on the part of anyone, and that's, indeed, why we were seeking the Justice Department guidance on this, so obviously we followed his advice. Senator SARBANES. This actually was an effort on your part to make sure everything was done in as an appropriate a fashion as was possible? Mr. GEARAN. Yes, Senator. Senator SARBANES. Senator Murray. OPENING COMMENTS OF SENATOR PATTY MURRAY Senator MURRAY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to clear up some of your statements, Ms. Mathews, and sum up your testimony this morning, I want to make sure I understood you correctly. Is it correct that you, on your own initiative, arranged to have the trash bag from Foster's office retrieved and preserved-, is that correct? MS. MATHEWS. Yes, it was my own initiative and then I confirmed the idea with the senior staff people who were around. Senator MURRAY. They told you that that was a good idea; is that correct? Ms. MATHEWS. Yes, ma'am. Senator MURRAY. Your intention was to preserve evidence; correct? Ms. MATHEWS. Yes, and to see if there was a note. Senator MURRAY. It was also on your own initiative that you asked for the burn bag material to be retrieved. That was your own initiative as well? Ms. MATHEWS. Yes. I again asked and was told initially that it was a good idea. Senator MURRAY. It was to preserve evidence; correct? Ms. MATHEWS. To see if there was a note. 304