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Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 7, 1973
[00.02.00--Herbert PORTER testifying about his role in paying money to Gordon LIDDY and in committing PERJURY in the Watergate investigation at the request of Jeb MAGRUDER] [THIS FEATURES A VERY ENJOYABLE CHEWOUT OF PORTER BY SENATOR BAKER] Mr. PORTER. ..... in all honesty, that I really could not see what effect it had on reelecting a President of the United States. On the other hand, in all fairness, I was not the one to stand up in a meeting and say that this should be stopped, either. So I do not--I mean, there is space in between. I kind of drifted along. Senator BAKER. Now, you have reached now precisely that point that I would like to examine and I intend to examine it with other witnesses as this hearing proceeds. Mr. PORTER. OK. Senator BAKER. Where does the system break down when concern for what is right as distinguished from what is legal is never asserted or never thought about and you do not stand up and say so? At any time, did you ever think of saying: I do not think this is quite right this is not quite the way it ought to be. Did you ever think of that? Mr. PORTER. I think most people would probably stop and think about that. Senator BAKER. Did you? Mr. PORTER. Yes, I did. Senator BAKER. What did you do about it? Mr. PORTER. I did not do anything. Senator BAKER, Why didn't you? Mr. PORTER. In all honesty, probably because of the fear of group pressure that would ensue, of not being a team player. Senator BAKER. And the fear of not, being a team player was strong enough to suppress your judgment on what action you should take if you considered an action improper, if not illegal? Mr. PORTER. Well, I never considered any action up to that point illegal, No. 1. However, I was---- [00.03.38] Senator BAKER. Do you think an organization, a political organization, should be so anonymous, so military and obedient, so careful for the concerns of peer approval that each and every member of that organization at least, up until a, certain point and level in the organization chart, completely abdicates his conscience and judgment? Mr. PORTER. No, sir; I certainly do not. Senator BAKER. What caused you to abdicate your own conscience and disapproval, if you did disapprove, of the practices or dirty tricks operation? [00.04.20--PORTER attempts to rationalize--BAKER is not having it] Mr. PORTER. Well, Senator Baker, my loyalty to this, man, Richard Nixon, goes back longer than any person that you will see sitting at this table throughout any of these, hearings, I first met the President--- Senator BAKER. I really very much doubt that, Mr. Porter. I have known Richard Nixon probably longer than you have been alive, and I really expect that the greatest disservice that a man could do to a President of the United States would be to abdicate his conscience. Mr. PORTER. I understand Senator. I first met Mr. Nixon when I was 8 years old in 1946, when he ran for Congress in my home district. I wore Nixon buttons when I was 8 and when I was 10 and when I was 12 and when I -was 16. -My family worked for him; my father worked for him in campaigns my mother worked for or him in campaigns. I felt as if I had known this man all my life--not personally, perhaps, but in spirit, I felt a deep sense of loyalty to him. I was appealed to on this basis. Senator BAKER. Mr. Porter, I am sorry to interrupt you at point. We have a warning bell on a rollcall. I know I will return. When we do, I know you will continue this. [00.05.33--LEHRER in studio] LEHRER states that Sen. BAKER is attempting to get at the motivation of PORTER to give money for "dirty tricks", with PORTER'S answers suggesting that BAKER is overemphasizing PORTER'S importance in the affair. [PBS Network ID--title screen "SENATE HEARINGS ON CAMPAIGN ACTIVITIES"] [00.08.12--LEHRER in studio] LEHRER states that ranking minority member Senator BAKER will resume his questioning of Herbert PORTER. [00.08.29--In to Sen. BAKER]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 7, 1973
[00.25.38] *SEE RESTRICTIONS FIELD IN RIGHTS SECTION***** Senator INOUYE. You advised the committee that Mr. Magruder, told you that he perjured himself 12 times. Did he tell you about, 12 times he perjured himself? Mr. PORTER. No, sir, he did not. He made that comment the afternoon-the same afternoon, on April 14. Senator INOUYE, I am just-as a mutter of curiosity, you have' indicated that you were moved to take certain actions because of fear of ostracism; you did not want to be ostracized by the team. Mr. PORTER. I am not--- Senator INOUYE. I think that is the phrase you used. What team are you talking about? Mr. PORTER. It is just a generic term, Senator; not any particular squad of people. I used the term generically, I think. Senator INOUYE. People like Mr. Haldeman? Mr. PORTER. Probably. Senator INOUYE. Mr. Mitchell? Mr. PORTER. Probably. Senator INOUYE. The President? Mr. PORTER. I don't think that ever crossed my mind, no, sir. Senator INOUYE. I have other questions, but they relate to the, dirty tricks and I have been advised we will take these up later on. So, Mr. Chairman, I yield at this time, Thank you very much. Mr. PORTER. Yes sir. Senator ERVIN. If there is no objection, we. have some more votes coming up very quickly and our time is running out. Can you come back Tuesday? Mr. PORTER. Sir, I am going to California in the morning with Mrs. Porter. It will require me to fly back on Monday. If that is what the committee wants me to do, I will certainly be willing to do it. Senator ERVIN. I don't think we can finish this afternoon. I hate to inconvenience you. Mr. PORTER. No inconvenience. Senator ERVIN. The committee will stand in recess until Tuesday at 10 o'clock. Mr. PORTER. Yes, sir, I -will be here. [00.27.50--LEHRER in studio] LEHRER discusses the sum total of testimony thus far, saying that it's clear that some bigshots are involved, but not clear how far up into the White House the trail leads. Calls on David AUSTEN, guest commentator and Georgetown University Law Professor, to discuss his view as a lawyer of the proceedings AUSTEN says that PORTER'S testimony was the most interseting, legally speaking, having admitted to two instances of Perjury. States that PORTER'S memory appears outstanding, remembering exact words from old conversations, which will make it easier for cross-examining attorneys to use the transcripts to pick at his testimony word for word. Adds that PORTER did not come across as well as SLOAN, who exuded honesty and candor, while PORTER testified that he only came forward with his story because MAGRUDER's decision to testify put PORTER in the position of having to testify to protect himself, while SLOAN did so out of no apparent self-interest, making his testimony much more credible to a jury. AUSTEN adds that the legal profession took some lumps during PORTER'S testimony, in that there were allegations of improper action toward clients, including even falling asleep during a consultation. Lastly, says AUSTEN,, it seems that the verdict is in on the legal profession, and it seems to be unfavorable. MacNEILL states that PORTER could presumably still be indicted for PERJURY, would he be able to claim some mitigating circumstances by virtue of coming clean for the committee? AUSTEN states that PORTER'S indictment is up to the prosecutor, so he may exercise discretion and can't be forced to indict PORTER, but in the case of conviction, the question of punishment and mitigating circumstances would be up to a judge. MacNEILL states that the deposition of H.R. HALDEMAN had been released that day, in which HALDEMAN said that John DEAN was never asked to investigate WATERGATE for the White House, raising doubts about NIXON'S statements that DEAN had investigated and found no involvement by White House personnel. [00.32.30]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 7, 1973
[00.08.29--In to Sen. BAKER] Senator BAKER [presiding]. I might say that the chairman will be here shortly. I understand from the chairman's representative that it was his wish that we reopen the hearings and continue. I reiterate what I said earlier, Mr. Porter, I am in no way trying to be antagonistic to you, I have no animosity toward you, I am trying to probe for a state of mind and the institutional arrangements the structuring, the situation that produced what would appear Me to be an abdication of one's personal judgment of what is right or Wrong about a particular set of activities. That inquiry was frankly kicked off my mind by the designation of "dirty tricks" within the campaign organization itself, by a situation that led you by your testimony, apparently, to commit, perjury. With that as the end result, I hope you can understand why I am trying to probe for the set of circumstances that led a young man to do those things. I think I have spent most of my questions. I think that I am at best in an area of questionable definition but if you have anything further you can give me that would shed light on why you agreed to swear falsely, why you closed your mind, apparently to undesirable conduct if not improper conduct in a political campaign, the committee would be grateful for it. Mr. PORTER. Senator Baker, I am not a philosopher or moral philosopher but I am trying to answer your questions as honestly as I possibly can and hopefully it comes out right. If it does not, it is as honest as I can make it. First of all, I was not in charge of dirty tricks. I do not know where all of this money went. I was never aware of all of this money. I was aware of the amount of money I got from Mr. Sloan and even that I was really only aware of about $17,000, I had been told where that actually ended up. Senator BAKER. Did you tell Mr. Sloan what you used that money for? Mr. PORTER. No, sir; I did not. Senator BAKER. Did Mr. Sloan ever ask you about Mr. PORTER. I have heard Mr. Sloan make that statement and I believe, I would not dispute it, I am sure he probably did, and I probably said you will have to ask Mr. Magruder. Whether that was because I did not know what it was being used for, whether I -"as just evading a question, I do not remember the Conversation. Senator BAKER. If Mr. Sloan were to assert that he asked you what the money was being used for and you refused to tell him, would you dispute that? Mr. PORTER. I would not dispute it. I do not remember the conversation, Senator. Senator BAKER. All right, go ahead, Mr. PORTER. But I did not have any knowledge, of that, Senator. I did not know. At the time Mr. Magruder talked to me in retrospect, I was a pretty easy target for that sort of thing because I did not know, anything. I did not have any knowledge of the Strachan money, the Kalmbach money, the Liddy money, all of these Other things. I did not know anything about that. Senator BAKER. Did You ever see any stolen documents or transcriptions of illegal wiretaps? Mr. PORTER. I never saw any transcriptions of legal wiretaps. Senator BAYER, Did You ever see any stolen documents? Mr. PORTER. Probably so. Probably so. But I do not know whether they were stolen or whether they were sent by somebody perhaps in a campaign. Senator BAKER. Do you know a Mrs. Duncan? Mr. PORTER. I know Martha Duncan. Senator BAKER. Who 'Was She? Mr. PORTER. She was my secretary for a short period of time. Senator BAKER. Did she ever type up any documents that you knew to be stolen documents? Mr. PORTER. Yes, sir. Senator BAKER. What happened then. Tell me a little, illuminate that a little bit. What tinge of conscience came into play when YOU instructed your secretary to type a copy of stolen documents? Mr. PORTER. I am not sure of any tinge of conscience, Senator. I had been told by others in the campaign that this kind of thing was normal activity in a, campaign. In my opening statement said that I had never been involved in a political campaign before and I had not. These things were all new to me and I accepted them for what they were, [00.12.54] Senator BAKER. That is a terrible indictment of politics. Being a politician I am really distressed to hear that. Are you telling me in effect, that it was your opinion that this sort of thing went on in politics With Democrats and Republicans and that it was fair game, and that it might bother your conscience a little but it had to be done? Mr. PORTER. That is exactly what I felt, Senator. Senator BAKER. How do you feel now? Mr. PORTER. Well [ very nervous laughter] I am not sure that, they have stopped. Senator BAKER. What would you do now? Mr. PORTER. If what, sir? Senator BAKER. If you were in the same situation, pick any one of the, things, whether you are swearing, falsely to the grand jury or whether you are photographing or rather typing stolen documents, whatever it is, or $17,000 for pranks or dirty tricks, what would your attitude be, at this point? Mr. PORTER. It would be I would not, become involved in any way, shape or form. Senator BAKER. What brought about the change? Where is this real emergence of human instinct for decency in politics? Mr. PORTER. Again you are asking me to give a moral judgment. In my own personal case, it has devastated me personally and that, is reason enough for me never to do it again. I can't answer for the others. [00.14.10]
Small Birds - Phoebe
TAPE 1 Phoebe on twig
Small Birds - Baltimore Oriole
TAPE 1 Baltimore Oriole build nest - Female Baltimore Oriole at the nest and on the nest - Male Baltimore Oriole build nest - Female
Small Birds - Baltimore Oriole
TAPE 1 Baltimore Oriole build nest - Female Baltimore Oriole at the nest and on the nest - Male Baltimore Oriole build nest - Female
Small Birds - Indigo Bunting
TAPE 1 Indigo Bunting in tree - Male
Small Birds - House Finch
TAPE 1 House finch at feeder CU , Bill - Male
Small Birds - Baltimore Oriole
TAPE 1 Baltimore Oriole Build Nest - Female
Small Birds - Mourning Dove
TAPE 1 Mouring Dove in tree
Small Birds - Mourning Dove
TAPE 1 Mouring Dove in tree
Motorboat Daredevils Race In Germany
The Moselle River is stirred to a frenzy by wild riding of competitors for a world championship on the water. Germany Coaching official holding a starter gun, fires it and the race is on. The little speed boats are really moving out. Speed boats shooting rooster tails behind their boats. The water is getting choppy due to the MPH these little race boats are turning out. As one of the drivers makes the corner he is dumped out of his boat, he is not hurt and climbs back in. The winner of the race is Deter Koneke of Germany, he drives his boat up to the shore and waves to the crowd. The crowd is waving and cheering him on, as he approaches the crowd they playfully grab him and throw him in the drink.
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 7, 1973
[00.14.10] Senator BAKER. If you make a contribution to this country by serving, as an example, a deterrent to others having that attitude, it might make some atonement, for that submerged conscience, but time will tell that, we will have to wait and see. Mr. PORTER. I had that in my statement, and took it, out because I thought that was rather self-serving to make because that, is how I feel. Senator BAKER. Before I ask this last, question, let me point out, that, this inquiry is not, that, of an amateur philosopher or psychologist but rather in pursuit of the. statutory jurisdiction of this committee, which is not only to find those things which may have been illegal but improper as well. Mr. PORTER. I understand. Senator BAKER. Call you tell me, 'Mr. Porter, how we might ventilate the structure of campaigning how we might expose to the fresh breeze Of conscience and personality the organization of a presidential campaign SO that young men and old men assert their sense of right or wrong instead of doing so-and-so because someone told them to. Mr. PORTER, I think you are doing a damn fine job right, now, Senator. [Laughter.] Senator BAKER. It is a painful thing, you know. Mr. PORTER. Yes, sir. Senator BAKER. And it is a terrible way to have to do it. Do you have any other suggestions? Mr. PORTER. I have often thought we had too much money. [00.15.55--HUMOR] Senator BAKER. Money is the--I am sure the chairman would approve of this. [Laughter.] And in deference to the chairman I will save it for him. [Laughter.] Mr. PORTER. I am waiting myself to find out which one he is going to apply to my case. Senator BAKER. Mr. Porter, I believe that is all I have. I would like to yield to Senator Inouye. Senator INOUYE. Thank you very much. Mr. Porter, you have in your interview with the staff said it was a standard operating procedure that Mr. Haldeman of the White House be kept totally informed of everything that went on; is that correct? Mr. PORTER. Senator Inouye, 1 believe I told the staff it was my understanding that certainly in my area that major policy decisions and that sort of thing that Mr. Haldeman's aide, Mr. Strachan, always got copies of everything that we had, everything that went on in my division, and I am sure got copies of everything that went on in other divisions. Senator INOUYE. To the smallest detail such as a guest list? Mr. PORTER. Yes, sir. Senator INOUYE. Did you advise Mr. Haldeman as to cash disbursements? Mr. PORTER. No, sir. Senator INOUYE. Are they a bit more important than guest lists? Mr. PORTER. I am not sure I understand the question, Senator, Senator INOUYE. YOU just indicated that Mr. Haldeman was desirous of getting everything including guest lists of parties. Now, I asked if you had advised Mr. Haldeman of cash disbursements, $67,000 worth, and you say no, I was just wondering, don't you think $671000 is a bit more important than just a little old guest list? Mr. PORTER. I think the two, one doesn't follow the other. The money that was disbursed through 1-1 me as a conduit Mr. Magruder was aware of and it would have teen Mr. Magruder's responsibility to relay that situation to his superior, Mr. Mitchell, and if he wanted to, Mr. Kalmbach, not Mr. Kalmbach, Mr. Strachan or Mr. Haldeman That was not my function, no, sir. Senator INOUYE. I presume you kept a record of all your disbursements? Mr. PORTER. I did. Senator INOUYE. What happened to the record, sir? Mr. PORTER. At the end of March 1972, 1 received a phone call from Mr. Sloan saying that he would like to balance out, because April 7 was approaching. I, to protect myself internally, called upon Mr. Reisner, who has testified before this committee, to come in and act as a disinterested third party to review what I had in--I had on a little secretarial steno pad, an in-and-out sheet, if you will, a record of my copies of my receipts and cash on hand. Mr. Reisner did that. I called Mr. Sloan. I told him the figure, $52,000, that I had received from him from whatever the beginning of time was until that point. He agreed to that. I did not have an accounting function at the committee. In fact, nobody at the Committee for the Re-Election of the President had any accounting or disbursing function, so to speak. That was the finance committee. And I had no need for the records, and I threw them away. [00.19.47] I