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Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 7, 1973
[00.39.27] Senator WEICKER. In other -words.. when you went to see Mr. Haldeman In January, you already had been rehired? Mr. SLOAN. Yes, sir, that is correct. Senator WEICKER. As a consultant to the Committee To Re-Elect the President? Mr. SLOAN, Finance committee. The political committee, as I understood it had essentially been dissolved although that turned out not to be the case Senator WEICKER. Who rehired you as consultant or how did the rehiring as consultant to the finance committee come about? Mr. SLOAN. During the period after my resignation, I would guess two occasions, Secretary Stans sought me out seeking my return to the campaign. Senator WEICKER. That was at what time? Mr. SLOAN. I am not sure it would have been, I am just not, sure, Some point during this 5-month period following my resignation in July. Senator WEICKER. All right, Mr. SLOAN. I in no way wished to consider it. I turned him down. After 5 months with the election over, he asked me again. Essentially it Was in the terms of you have taken essentially a bum rap on this thing and I know it's been difficult for you, 5 months without gainful employment, I would like you to come back and help me wrap up the campaign. I consented because certain conditions which would have made it objectionable to me and why I would refuse an offer prior to that time were met. One, I did not feel if I had this kind of opportunity at this Particular point in time with no prejudice being attached to that association, that I in good conscience could go on and not provide for my family. The Conditions that no longer existed as far as I was concerned was that the campaign -was over, there was no liability or spinoff effect on the President's chance for reelection by having someone who had been named as someone involved in this affair air being associated with his campaign, the political leadership who were essentially the people that I had my argument with on the Committee for the, Re-Election of the President were no longer there, they had been essentially disbanded either by resignation or by employment in the private sector or had gone over to the Inaugural Committee. Also none of the assignments I would have, it was understood, would have anything to do-in the capacity of an official, it would be purely a personal working relationship with Maury Stans, assist him in preparing to cope with some of the civil litigation that would be forthcoming, Senator WEICKER. So your employment as a consultant was strictly as a result of Mr. Stans' request? Mr. SLOAN. Yes sir, in my considered judgment. Senator WEICKER. In your judgment? Mr. SLOAN. At that time I think it should be clear I had already made my testimony to the grand jury although the criminal trial had, not come up, but one of the important considerations I took into account in accepting such a, position would be that there could be no possible misunderstanding in terms of that having any effect on any subsequent testimony I would give. Senator WEICKER, And no other individual was involved insofar as that rehiring was concerned, it was begun by Mr. Stans, or were other persons consulted? Mr. SLOAN. It is possible that Mr. Kalmbach may have been involved in the decision. Senator WEICKER, Why do you say that? Mr. SLOAN. Mr. Kalmbach had attempted to be helpful to me during this period in seeking private employment. He, had indicated on a number of occasions he thought I made a mistake in resigning in the first place. He was in frequent contact, with Secretary Stans I suspect they had conversations to the effect that my personal situation was a result of what had happened, Additionally, I would say part of the considered judgment to rejoin the finance committee is that I did not and do not believe that Secretary Stans in any way was involved in the original criminal activities. I thought he was left essentially holding the bag and I wanted to be helpful to him in that regard. Senator WEICKER. Right. It is true, however, that during the summer months and the fall months that you did feel rather put upon, maybe that is not the right word, maybe you have a better word for it, insofar as those: individuals that were in charge of the campaign. You feel you were being treated in a shabby fashion by them. Mr. SLOAN. I would have to say after I made my decision with the exception of a few of the phone calls we have referred to here, that it was pretty much a hands-off situation, I just did not see any of the people. Senator WEICKER, You were not one of the favorite at all? Mr. SLOAN. I think that would be fairly accurate, yes sir. Senator WEICKER. But what caused you to change your mind, then, and at the end of January, having been treated in that fashion, go and ask for an appointment, with Mr. Haldeman? Mr. SLOAN. Senator, essentially, one, I did not believe the White House had any involvement by the known fact at that point. I also did not believe the finance committee had any involvement. I disagreed with Secretary Stans and we had some discussions early on of this affair, along the lines that the finance committee, because of the very obvious potential for misunderstanding in terms of financial transactions that presumably had -one to these individuals, that the finance committee early on should have made a separate statement and attempted to separate itself away from the. political committee in terms of its own conduct, SO that the financial transactions could be judged purely in terms of what they were. I had no knowledge that Secretary Stans knew what these funds were for. As far as I know? he accepted authorization of others as well. These two areas, in my opinion, were unconnected. I think there had been an error in judgment in not addressing the political problem and forcing resolution There. [00.46.08]
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Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 7, 1973
[00.46.08] Senator WEICKER. I can understand that, but, I just want to get back to the point, I am trying to develop, that at, the time of your troubles, there, were those who stood with you and those who stood apart from you? Mr. SLOAN. And there were quite a few in the middle,. Senator WEICKER. All right. Mr. SLOAN. And I think, Senator, this may help answer your question. It was very difficult in each and every individual case to determine where those individuals stood, because people just were -not, talking to each other about, the pertinent issues at, this point. Senator WEICKER. But, you did know that you were one of the few people, that were insisting on telling the truth and you would not deviate from that; is that not correct? Mr. SLOAN. Yes, Sir; but at that point in time, all the forums that were potentially on the horizon for doing that had disappeared. I had done what, I thought was right. No resolution of the matter had been raised on the basis of what had said, because. basically, I had very limited knowledge, only of the fact that from a factual basis, all I could ever say was that I gave certain individuals certain money. In the case of Mr. Magruder, it was a ease of, yes, I knew I had been approached to do that, but in case of testimony, here he gives a Contrary testimony, I can full well, certainly in that period of time, fully understand the he prosecutor's position, unless they had additional Information, which I had no way of knowing, where he Simply could not proceed with that, where they had one man's word against another's, I felt there was nothing I could do, nothing more was going to come out, it, was all over, I had essentially lost. Senator WEICKER. Why did you try to have lunch with Mr. Chapin? Mr. SLOAN. You are not talking about the earlier meeting, you are, talking about the luncheon when I called him when he had gone to United Airlines? Senator WEICKER. Right. Mr. SLOAN. I think it was essentially, sir, the same kind of situation that it was with Bob Haldeman. Here was a man I had worked with for 2 1/2 years. I had not seen anything of him since the one time I had seen him in that whole period of time. I was about to leave town, he was about to leave town. I had seen a number of people at the White House over this intervening period. I think it was purely social. Senator WEICKER. Was there any concern in your mind that there were those in this picture who seemed to be ending up with rather good jobs, both within and without Government, while you seemed to have been left standing by yourself? Mr. SLOAN. Well, in going back to the Haldeman meeting and his very definitive definition to me of administration policy with regard to individuals who would not be appointed to positions in Government--now I do not know whether he meant positions that actually required Presidential confirmation--or Senate confirmation, excuse me--but I think it was only a few days after that, after that meeting with Bob Haldeman, which I felt very good about, because he had indicated to me, you know, I realize some mistakes were made, there is nothing being held against you, good luck in the private sector. But within, I think, a very short period of time after that, Mr. Magruder's appointment to the Commerce Department was announced and at that point, I just threw up my hands. In answer to your question, yes, sir; it was obvious to me that not only did they not address the problem of people, I think they had, fairly strong indications were involved--I perhaps can understand the intent to postpone it until after the political election, but there was certainly no attempt, even at that point, to take these people out of the picture. Senator WEICKER. In other words, that possibly, integrity is a disability in this matter? Mr. SLOAN. The way it is ultimately believed to be resolved, I would not think that it is a liability. I think it takes a long time. Senator WEICKER, Let me get back, if I could, to the meeting with Mr. Haldeman. You indicated there was some talk about the Segretti matter and he explained that this would turn out all right. Mr. SLOAN, Yes, sir; he said when this received the full light of day--I am not sure of his precise word-, or paraphrasing--that it would be understandable to the American people. Senator WEICKER. Now, what else was discussed; 45 minutes is a considerable period of time. The Strachan payments, which you Surmised went to Mr. Haldeman, was this a matter of discussion during that session? Mr. SLOAN. No, sir, no subject matter with regard to the finance campaign activities came up at all. It was not my purpose to be there to discuss any of that matter. Senator WEICKER. In other words, neither the payments to Liddy not to Strachan. none of these matters were discussed at all during that 45 minutes? Mr. SLOAN. Yes, sir. Only that discussion was re really a minor--not on those Matters, on really very broad matters that I referred to a Minute ago, in explaining that the team had left, me, in that, type Of context. I mentioned that I had been approached to perjure myself and take the fifth amendment, but I did not feel it was appropriate to make specific allegations as to individuals. I felt that that had already been addressed in the judicial processes and the point was, moot. [00.52.00]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 7, 1973
[00.52.00] Senator WEICKER. Did you feel that the basic, purpose of the meeting then, was that you would need the support of the administration in finding employment in the future? Mr. SLOAN. No, sir; I think I was looking at it more, from the other side of the coin, that I wanted to be sure that there would not be active efforts to inhibit my own efforts. Senator WEICKER. The fear of---- Mr. SLOAN. Retribution. Senator WEICKER. [continuing]. Of retribution. Mr. SLOAN. Yes, sir. Senator WEICKER. One last question, Mr. Sloan. You have, been very patient and very responsive also. How were the payments to Mr. Liddy made? In what form? You indicated, for example, in Mr. Strachan's Case that it was Put in a suitcase What was the nature and form Of payment to Mr. Liddy? Mr. SLOAN. In View Of the fact that he was physically located in the same suite of offices I was, he would generally just tell me he needed x number of dollars and generally, I would go get it and put it in a manila envelope, something of that sort. I think on one. occasion I was going to be out of town at a time he needed to pick up certain funds. I think on that occasion, he had his secretary, Sally Harmony come in and get the envelope. Senator WEICKER. You say that Sally Harmony picked up the Money from you? Mr. SLOAN. Yes, sir; on one occasion, I believe that was correct. Senator WEICKER. On one occasion? Mr. SLOAN. In an envelope. She--and I had forgotten this, but other testimony has brought it to mind. I think the circumstances were that he must have been out of town and called me and said, I need whatever the amount was; the only time I could pick it, up is I am coming in on Sunday or something. He said, what I will do is I will tell Sally to come into your office with an envelope and you take care of the matter and I do not want her to know what it is and she will put, it in my--he had a locked file drawer cabinet, in his, office--and she knows the combination, she will put, it in there. Senator WEICKER. So you turned over in envelope to her? Mr. SLOAN. Yes, sir; she did not see it. Senator WEICKER. She did not see the money but you gave her the envelope? Mr. SLOAN-. Yes. Senator WEICKER. She understood there was money in the envelope? Mr. SLOAN. No, No, sir; she did not. Senator WEICKER. She did not? Mr. SLOAN. I recall it, and I am not positive, Mr. Liddy stressed the fact that he did not want her to know that this was money. Senator WEICKER. Fine. One last question in relation to, again, the Haldeman meeting. Was there any discussion at all at that meeting of Magruder's perjury suggestion? Mr. SLOAN. I did not mention it by name, but in relating to why I had left--I was trying to give him an accounting of why I had made the. personal decisions I had. I said I have been asked to perjure myself on numerous occasions and in my judgment, there was pressure to take the fifth amendment, and I said, Bob, I am just not prepared to do that. Senator WEICKER. What was his response? Mr. SLOAN. I am not positive. I think I would be Putting words in his mouth, but I think it was to the effect that, well, I realize there were mistakes made in the early period. Senator WEICKER, I have no further questions, [00.55.25--MacNEILL in studio] MacNEILL gives the gist of SLOAN's testimony, that he did not believe the White House was involved in a COVERUP, but placing MAGRUDER at the center Solicits viewer response to coverage, citing 70,000+ letters, 99% approving [shot of mailbag, MacNEILL V.O. reads letters, titles show excerpts from the letters] MacNEILL urges viewers to give feedback to local PBS stations, along with donations [PBS network ID--title screen 'SENATE HEARINGS ON CAMPAIGN ACTIVITIES'--back to MacNEILL] [00.59.58--Mac NEILL introduces next questions from Sen. MONTOYA.] [01.00.07--committee room]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 7, 1973
[00.51.55] Mr. DASH. Mr. Sloan, I just have two questions. You may have misunderstood Senator Montoya's question to you concerning any efforts by anybody other than Magruder to have you testify differently than you believed was the truth. You did say in answer to Senator Montoya that with regard to Mr. LaRue's conversations with you, that you believed he may have had an honest belief that there was a difference of opinion as to the amount. Let me just refer you to your testimony yesterday in response to a question put by me to you concerning a conversation you had with Mr. LaRue after you had had your interview with the FBI, and let, file read your testimony on page 1248 and 1249 of the transcript. You just went back from your interview with the, FBI and you stated: [quoting] I believe -Mr. LaRue came down to my office following that interview, essentially to find out what I said and what matters came up. At that point he indicated to me, and I do not have the precise words, the sense of the meaning as it came across to me, there was very brief reference something to the effect that the Liddy money is the problem. It is very politically sensitive. We can just not come out with a high figure, we are going to have to come out with a different figure. And I said, as I recall, I said if there is a problem I cannot see it makes any difference whether it is $200 or $200,000, at which point he dropped the conversation. [end quoted section] Mr. DASH. Is that a correct statement? Mr. SLOAN. Yes, sir. I guess it is a question of degree, that in the case of Mr. Magruder it was a very hard sell blatant kind of approach. In the case of Mr. LaRue, very low key and he banked off it Very fast, but that is a correct statement, to the best of my knowledge, in the sense of that meeting. Mr. DASH. Mr. Sloan, also in the early part of your testimony YOU did mention the name Francis Raine as a, person who was a cosigner, I understand, of one, of the cash safe deposit boxes. Do you have of your own knowledge, any information as to whether Mr. Raine is related to Mr. Haldeman? Mr. SLOAN. Yes, sir; I do not believe I knew it at the time. I have since been told he, is a relative. I am not, sure by whom. I understand it is a brother-in- law relation. Mr. DASH, I have no further questions of Mr. Sloan, but I think for the record, the Dahlberg check which was dated April 10, 1972, drawn on the First Bank & Trust Co. of Boca Raton in the amount of $25,000, which had already been identified by you, Mr. Sloan, but, it has never been marked as an exhibit I, and I would like to have it given to the reporter to mark as -in exhibit and introduced into evidence. I have no further questions. Senator ERVIN. The reporter will number the check or copy of the check, give the appropriate number and be received as an exhibit. [The check referred to was marked exhibit -No. 25.*] Senator ERVIN. Mr. Sloan, I want to thank you on behalf of the committee for your appearance here,. I want to thank you for the, intellectual integrity which you have displayed throughout your examination and for the very forthright manner in which you have testified. Mr.. SLOAN-. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Senator ERVIN. You are excused now, subject to be recalled if the committee later finds it necessary to do so. Thank you very much. The committee will stand in recess until 2 o'clock, [00.55.55--members, reporters, spectators stand to leave--00.55.59--LEHRER in studio] LEHRER states that after almost 7 hours, SLOAN'S testimony has ended, and the next witness will be a man to whom SLOAN gave large sums of cash, Herbert PORTER [PBS Network ID--title screen "SENATE HEARINGS ON CAMPAIGN ACTIVITIES"] [00.58.39-LEHRER in studio] LEHRER introduces questioning of PORTER by associate counsel David DORSEN [00.58.49--to ERVIN gavelling meeting to order] [00.58.52]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 7, 1973
[01.00.07--committee room] Senator ERVIN. Senator Montoya. Senator MONTOYA. Mr.. Sloan, I believe you testified yesterday that in arriving at the figures represented by this chart with respect to reimbursement of different individuals, that you had gone to these, individuals personally and reconciled the memories, and both you and the individuals had arrived at this figure as a reconciliation, Is that Correct? Mr. SLOAN. Yes, sir. Probably not in every individual case-for instance, Mr. Nofziger, where there was only a single or just a double distribution and the person is not available. This would generally relate to, for instance, the Porter, the Liddy, Magruder, Kalmbach situations, where there were multiple distributions, where over a period of time, some discrepancies could happen. Senator MONTOYA. Now, I ask you, was the figure of $250,000 to Mr. Kalmbach reconciled with him? Mr. SLOAN. Senator, these figures here are to the best of my recollection. I realize they are not precise. There could be dollars and cents off. Senator MONTOYA. Could there be any material deviation or variation? Mr. SLOAN. Oh, no, sir; in terms of what the precise figure was, We, did agree in every case. There was no discrepancy with any individual I talked to. Senator MONTOYA. Could your figures with Mr. Porter differ in an amount close to $50,000? Would that be possible? Mr. SLOAN. Senator, again, after a year, it is possible. This is my best recollection of what the figure was. The Liddy matter, I think, for instance, I am far surer on that figure than Mr. Porter's because Mr. Liddy was the issue at the time. Senator MONTOYA. To the best of your recollection and after reconciliation with Mr. Porter, do you still state that you disbursed to him the sum of $100,000? Mr. SLOAN. Senator, that is my best recollection. If he has a different recollection, I would not--you know, I would not stand on the hard figure of $100,000. That is the best approximation of what I recall I gave. Senator MONTOYA. Were you familiar with the activities of Mr. Porter? Mr. SLOAN. In terms of what he did with his money? Senator MONTOYA. Yes. Mr. SLOAN. No, sir. Senator MONTOYA. Are you now? Mr. SLOAN. I have read some stories in the press, yes, sir. Senator MONTOYA. What. information call you give this committee from those reports and from what, you have gathered since you left the committee? Mr. SLOAN. I believe it came out at the criminal trial, that of the funds I had given to Mr. Porter, he evidently, in turn, had turned over $35,000 of those funds to Mr. Liddy, which produced the aggregate figure that was used in the trial, the funds that were made available to Mr. Liddy. Senator MONTOYA. Did you also ascertain that some of this money was used for the "dirty tricks" part, of the campaign? Mr. SLOAN. There was a story about a student named Mr. Brill. There is a, convoluted chain of custody here I believe, from Mr. Porter to Mr. Rees to 'Mr. Gordon to Mr. Brill for--I am not sure "spying" is the right word, but whatever those activities were. Senator MONTOYA. Are you aware, of any other extended activities besides those two instances in this particular category? Mr. SLOAN. I think those are, the only two that I am aware of, Senator. Senator MONTOYA. You stated that a report on finances was given to Mr. Stans on one or two occasions, did you not? Mr. SLOAN. In terms of these cash funds, yes, sir; there were two or three reports in that, period from February 15, when he came on board, until my final report which I gave on June 23. Senator MONTOYA. And did you not, state the purpose of those disbursement disbursements as told by those individuals, if they told you? Mr. SLOAN. I have never been told directly by any of these individuals, Senator. Senator MONTOYA. I believe You questioned some disbursements to Mr. Porter and Mr. Liddy at one time and took this matter up with Mr. Stans; did you not? Mr. SLOAN. Yes, sir; I did. Senator -MONTOYA. And you also took this matter up with Mr. Magruder, is that correct? Mr. SLOAN. Yes, sir. Senator MONTOYA. And Mr. Magruder told you in turn that you were not, to question the request at, all, but to make the disbursements as they were requested of you, is that correct? [01.04.35--TAPE OUT]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 7, 1973
[00.02.00--in to Sen. MONTOYA questioning former CRP Treasurer HUGH SLOAN about campaign expenditures given to Gordon LIDDY] Senator MONTOYA. Could your figures with Mr. Porter differ in an amount close to $50,000? Would that be possible? Mr. SLOAN. Senator, again, after a year, it is possible. This is my best recollection of what the figure was. The Liddy matter, I think, for instance, I am far surer on that figure than Mr. Porter's because Mr. Liddy was the issue at the time. Senator MONTOYA. To the best of your recollection and after reconciliation with Mr. Porter, do you still state that you disbursed to him the sum of $100,000? Mr. SLOAN. Senator, that is my best recollection. If he has a different recollection, I would not--you know, I would not stand on the hard figure of $100,000. That is the best approximation of what I recall I gave. Senator MONTOYA. Were you familiar with the activities of Mr. Porter? Mr. SLOAN. In terms of what he did with his money? Senator MONTOYA. Yes. Mr. SLOAN. No, sir. Senator MONTOYA. Are you now? Mr. SLOAN. I have read some stories in the press, yes, sir. Senator MONTOYA. What. information call you give this committee from those reports and from what, you have gathered since you left the committee? Mr. SLOAN. I believe it came out at the criminal trial, that of the funds I had given to Mr. Porter, he evidently, in turn, had turned over $35,000 of those funds to Mr. Liddy, which produced the aggregate figure that was used in the trial, the funds that were made available to Mr. Liddy. Senator MONTOYA. Did you also ascertain that some of this money was used for the "dirty tricks" part, of the campaign? Mr. SLOAN. There was a story about a student named Mr. Brill. There is a, convoluted chain of custody here I believe, from Mr. Porter to Mr. Rees to 'Mr. Gordon to Mr. Brill for--I am not sure "spying" is the right word, but whatever those activities were. Senator MONTOYA. Are you aware, of any other extended activities besides those two instances in this particular category? Mr. SLOAN. I think those are, the only two that I am aware of, Senator. Senator MONTOYA. You stated that a report on finances was given to Mr. Stans on one or two occasions, did you not? Mr. SLOAN. In terms of these cash funds, yes, sir; there were two or three reports in that, period from February 15, when he came on board, until my final report which I gave on June 23. Senator MONTOYA. And did you not, state the purpose of those disbursement disbursements as told by those individuals, if they told you? Mr. SLOAN. I have never been told directly by any of these individuals, Senator. Senator MONTOYA. I believe You questioned some disbursements to Mr. Porter and Mr. Liddy at one time and took this matter up with Mr. Stans; did you not? Mr. SLOAN. Yes, sir; I did. Senator -MONTOYA. And you also took this matter up with Mr. Magruder, is that correct? Mr. SLOAN. Yes, sir. Senator MONTOYA. And Mr. Magruder told you in turn that you were not, to question the request at, all, but to make the disbursements as they were requested of you, is that correct? Mr. SLOAN. Yes, sir. Senator MONTOYA, And did you file or prepare any internal reports as to what you were doing with this money? Mr. SLOAN. Just these reports I gave Secretary Stans. They were the only reports and he was, the only recipient of those reports. Senator MONTOYA. Did you provide any copy of any reports to the White House? No, sir--oh, excuse me, not of these cash funds, no Mr. SLOAN. NO, sir; not to my knowledge, Senator MONTOYA. Well any other reports? Mr. SLOAN. As I understand it, and I think this happened after I left in terms of the aggregate report of all contributors, we put, together a reconciliation of the pre-April 7 period by category; for instance all contributors who gave above $200 000 might be category 1, above $100,000 category 2, and so forth'. Senator MONTOYA. Would you further categorize category 1 and category 2? What particular information did you really specify by way of more definition? Mr. SLOAN. Well, these reports merely list the name of the person, the address, and the total amount, I mean the aggregate figure of what they had given in multiple--it would include all cash, currency, and securities. Senator MONTOYA. Do I understand you to say these reports reflected the disbursement prior to April 7 to Mr. Liddy, Mr. Porter, and to the others? Mr. SLOAN. NO, sir; excuse me, Senator, these are contributors, reports, not disbursements reports. I misunderstood you. I apologize. The report I am referring to is a listing of all contributors without the dollar amount by category, I believe was made available to the White House. Disbursements, I do not believe any reports were given to the White House. Senator MONTOYA. Who received a report on the disbursements besides Mr. Stans? [00.06.49--shot of SLOAN'S WIFE listening to testimony, appearing concerned] Mr. SLOAN. As far as in terms of the cash funds he is the only individual I ever gave that report to. Senator MONTOYA. You never gave any of these reports to Mr. Mitchell or Mr. Magruder Mr. SLOAN. No, sir. Senator MONTOYA. Do you know whether or not Mr. Stans gave them? Mr. SLOAN. I do not of my personal knowledge. Senator MONTOYA. Did you ever talk to Mr. Magruder, Mr. Mitchell or to anyone else, other than Mr. Stans, and verbally tell them how you were disbursing this cash? Mr. SLOAN. Well, there were, as the authority for this distribution of funds evolved, there were obviously conversations with these individuals. Certainly Mr. Magruder had a working knowledge of who was receiving a number of these distributions. For instance, he was responsible for the one he received, the Liddy one, the Porter one, probably did not know about the one to Mr. Strachan, Mr. Kalmbach separate. I would say those are the ones he was familiar with. [00.07.44]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 7, 1973
[00.07.44] Senator 'MONTOYA. Well, in view of your later understanding and instruction, doesn't it stand to reason that Mr. Mitchell was consulted on these expenditures by Mr. Magruder? Doesn't it stand to reason that he knew of the disbursements to Mr. Liddy and to Mr. Porter? [shot of GURNEY and Fred THOMPOSON, then Sen. TALMADGE, listening to testimony, Sen. ERVIN listening] Mr. SLOAN. Senator, you know I would be making an assumption, obviously, with you. I think in an original sense it is inconceivable to me he would not be in a general sense, if his aides were doing their proper job, aware of this kind of situation. Certainly Mr. Stans indicated to me on two occasions that was the source of his confirmation, I should continue on making distributions. So Mr. Mitchell had some knowledge; yes, sir. Senator MONTOYA. So far as you knew Mr. Mitchell was aware of these disbursements from that indication? Mr. SLOAN. He was aware of some of them. Whether he had any knowledge as to the total figure, whether the Secretary gave him a 9, rundown at any particular time, I do not know from personal knowledge, Senator MONTOYA, Did you know at the time for what purposes Mr. Liddy was going to use this money? Mr. SLOAN. NO, Sir; I did not. Senator MONTOYA. have you Since then ascertained for what purpose he did use this money? Mr. SLOAN. I understand from the conviction in the Watergate trial that certainly a certain element of this money was used in support of that particular operation. Senator MONTOYA. In support of clandestine activities? Mr. SLOAN. Yes , Sir. Senator MONTOYA. And you stated and the chart, reflects that you disbursed $199,000 to 'Mr. Liddy. Then later he received the checks, which came in from Mexico and that they were taken to Miami and that this totaled $114,000. Is that correct? Mr. SLOAN. Yes, sir. But I did receive that money back. Senator -MONTOYA. How much of it, did you receive back? Mr. SLOAN. Approximately $112,000. There was a discrepancy of about $2,500, Senator MONTOYA. NOW, was it, your understanding that Mr. -Mitchell and 'Mr. Magruder approved all of the reimbursements before and after April 7? Mr. SLOAN. Reimbursements, Senator? Senator MONTOYA. Disbursements rather. Was it your understanding that, Mr. Mitchell, Mr. Magruder, approved of all disbursements made by you before April 1? Mr. SLOAN. Yes, sir. Senator MONTOYA. What was the carryover amount from the 1968 campaign? Mr. SLOAN. I am not, sure of the figure, Senator. I may be carrying one in another. But I can give you dimensions of it. I think the total amount of the 1968 funds that were turned over to me pre-April 7, probably amounted to about $580,000. Most of this was out of a bank account from which checks were written directly into existing committees. I think there were approximately $230,000 in cash. Whether that is part of the $580,000 or whether it is separate from that I am not sure from my own memory , but this is money Mr. Francis Raine brought in behalf of Mr. Kalmbach from California and that, money would be a part of the total receipts in the cash area as listed here. Senator MONTOYA. To the best of your recollection, as you have stated before, prior to April 7, 1973, you had received approximately $20 million; is that correct? "Mr. SLOAN. Before April 7, 1972; yes, sir. Senator MONTOYA. I believe you stated that those were hectic days prior, to April 7. Mr. SLOAN. Yes, sir; they certainly Senator MONTOYA. And that you were in constant turmoil trying to meet the deadline and to get all of the cash in. Mr. SLOAN, Yes, sir. Senator -MONTOYA. And what, was your policy with respect, to contributions which people called about and asked you to pick them up? Mr. SLOAN. I am not sure I received the calls directly but what was being done in the committee, we were using essentially any available people we had who could travel for us at that time. For instance, Ken Talmadge, who was administrative assistant to Secretary Stans made, a number of trips during this period to New York, for instance, to visit contributors to pick up their contributions and so forth. Senator MONTOYA. Was there any ceiling on pickup during those last days? Mr. SLOAN. I would say I am not sure there was a dollar amount and I may have been misunderstood in a previous deposition on this. There was one case where we did not think it worth our while to pick up a $100,000 contribution which happened to be the money in Mexico, but generally there were certain sums, the man could not get around to all of the places, he did it by priority, he took the largest sums first. There were places where we couldn't pick up a $50,000 contribution. Senator MONTOYA. Didn't you indicate to the committee through your deposition or interview that in the last hectic days your limitation of pickup was $100,000 or over? Mr. SLOAN. That may have been overstated, Senator. There was no set amount. I think that came out of a citing and example of the fact that in one case we made that decision with regard to a $100,000 contribution. I know of no policy that stipulated below a certain level. [00.13.23]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 7, 1973
[00.13.23] Senator MONTOYA. You weren't picking up any $5,000 contributions during those hectic days? Mr. SLOAN. No, sir; they would have to come in by mail. [Laughter.] Senator MONTOYA. You weren't picking up any $10,000 contributions during those hectic days when all of your manpower was being used internally to collect big amounts, were you? Mr. SLOAN. It would depend on the area. For instance, if a man went to New York and two men were working the same business office and one of them had $10,000, it would be easy to pick up. I would say if there was question of choice or priority or disproportionate amount of time in going up to pick up a lesser amount, we would not do that. senator MONTOYA. How many men would you say you had during the last few days on pickup missions? Mr. SLOAN, I am not sure, probably two or three people, maybe more than that, maybe as many as seven or eight moving around. Senator -MONTOYA. Did you have any pickup men in California? Mr. SLOAN. 1 am just not sure. Mr. Kalmbach, of course was out there, he was very active, he was in our headquarters during that period of time. He would go back on weekends. He may very well have brought money back in the general period of the last month. Whether it was picked up the last day or two I am not sure. Senator MONTOYA. Did you have a pickup division within the finance committee? Mr. SLOAN. No; this was not a structured thing, it was a matter of necessity in using whoever was available. Senator MONTOYA. Now when you went to Mr. -Mitchell's office to explain the situation and to tell him the FBI was downstairs waiting, would you please be a little more specific as to who accompanied you there, what conversation took place while you were in there, who opened up the conversation and what transpired? Mr. SLOAN. Senator, my best recollection was that when I had the call two agents from the FBI were in my office. I Was in a meeting with Fred LaRue. At this point in his office, he indicated tome I think, you ought to see John Mitchell before you go down. He at that point left me and went down the hall to John Mitchell's office, came back in a minute or two and asked me to accompany him back into the room. Present, to the best of my knowledge, would have been Mr. LaRue, myself, Mr. Mitchell, I know Mr. Mardian was there and possibly Mr. Magruder. I do not have a good sense of how I expressed my concern or anything I think it was an obvious time pressure here. The men were essentially sitting there; I was looking for sonic quick guidance. I indicated essentially, "What do you want me to say? These men are here" and I was concerned at that point. I could not, believe that they were not there to talk to me about finance and Mr. Liddy and the Watergate and everything else. Senator MONTOYA. I fully appreciate you were greatly concerned because the FBI was downstairs and you may not remember, I can appreciate your concern when you walked into Mr. Mitchell's office. But now you must have said something to Mr. 'Mitchell? Mr. SLOAN. Oh yes, I am sure I did. Senator 'MONTOYA. What did you say? Mr. SLOAN. I have no direct recollection of what, I said other than the purpose of my being there. Whatever I said had to be in that context. I needed some guidance. What do you want me to do. As I am sure the kind of way it was presented, Bob Mardian, as I recall, first put his hand on my knee and said the first, thing you have to do is calm down. At that point, Mr. Mitchell made his comment and that is the last recollection I have of that meeting. Senator 'MONTOYA. Did Mr. Mardian suggest to you anything that you might say to the FBI? Mr. SLOAN. No, sir. When I left that meeting, I had absolutely no guidance except to go down and see them. Senator MONTOYA. Did you have any guidance before you went in to see Mr. Mitchell from either Mr. Mardian, Mr. Magruder or Mr. LaRue? Mr. SLOAN. -No; I had no guidance at all. Senator MONTOYA, Did you engage in any discussions with them as to what you might say to the FBI? Mr. SLOAN. -NO, sir. When the matter came up it happened, it developed so fast that I assumed that Mr. LaRue by suggesting I see John Mitchell, the purpose of that was to give me some guidance. None was forthcoming. Senator MONTOYA. Now let us go into the California trip, I believe You were gone with Mr. Stans for approximately 5 or 6 days? Mr. SLOAN. Yes Sir. Senator MONTOYA. Now, did you stay in the same hotels with him' Mr. SLOAN. Yes, sir, I did after I joined him. I went out, on the. morning of the 7th which I believe was Friday Morning, and I did not join him until the evening of the 9th, which would be the Sunday night. From that point on the balance of the week I traveled with him, yes sir. Senator -MONTOYA. And did you share the same room or adjoining rooms? Mr. SLOAN. No sir. They might be neighboring rooms but they were not adjoining or the same suite. Senator MONTOYA. What duties did you perform when you were with him on this trip? Mr. SLOAN. I was, I think, merely a good listener at the fundraising meetings he had and met some of our people who were operating in our behalf in the field. I had no specific duties as such. Senator MONTOYA. What conversations did you have with Mr. Stans with respect to the Watergate affair and the cash disbursements that took place during this sordid affair? Mr. SLOAN. The Watergate obviously, I think the point in time, the principal emphasis in terms of what was as going on in the papers and what the level of concern was, was with regard to the Mexican checks and the Dahlberg matter. As a matter of fact, Mr. Dahlberg joined us, I believe, in Des Moines and spent quite a bit of time with Secretary Stans. [00.19.13]
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Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 7, 1973
[00.19.13] senator MONTOYA. What did Mr. Dahlberg discuss in Des Moines during that trip? Mr. SLOAN. I do not- Senator MONTOYA. With Mr. Stans? Mr. SLOAN. I do not know. I was not present at this meeting. Senator MONTOYA. Flow did Mr. Dahlberg meet with Mr. Stans in Des Moines? Mr. SLOAN. I believe it was in his hotel room. Senator MONTOYA. Isn't Mr. Dahlberg the individual who transported the Mexican money from Dallas, Tex., to Washington? Mr. SLOAN. Yes, sir, that, is my understanding, Senator MONTOYA, How long did they meet? Mr. SLOAN. I really do not know. In terms of a conversation Mr. Dahlberg mentioned to me that he had met the previous evening or whenever it was with Mr. Stans, Senator MONTOYA. Were you ever aware of any meetings between the President and Mr. Stans with respect to campaign financing? Mr. SLOAN. I know he met with the President, that I am aware of maybe once after he had joined the committee and once probably after the election. I do not know what the subject matter of whether it was even on the subject of finance. Senator MONTOYA. Did you in Your reports to the White House or to Mr. Stans reflect balances periodically of what was in the campaign fund? Mr. SLOAN, Oh, Yes, sir. Senator MONTOYA. And how were these reports transmitted to the White House? Mr. SLOAN. Excuse me, I have never made such a report to the White House, Senator. Senator MONTOYA. Did anyone from the White House pick up any of these reports either from you or Mr. Stans? Mr. SLOAN. Not that I am aware of. Senator MONTOYA. You stated that you were aware that Mr. Liddy, was spending approximately 90 percent of his time on finance committee matter as counsel. Mr. SLOAN. Yes, Sir. Senator MONTOYA. Were you aware of how he was spending other 10 percent of his time? Mr. SLOAN. -NO, sir, When he joined the finance committee, he indicated to me that he would have continuing projects for the political side of the campaign. Mr. Magruder confirmed that fact to me. No discussion took place as to the nature. of those duties. Senator MONTOYA. Did it ever arouse your curiosity that Mr. Liddy might be performing other tasks? Mr. SLOAN. I was fully aware he was spending some time on other affairs, I do not know what they were Senator MONTOYA. What led you to believe, as you stated, that the disbursement. of $10,000 to Mr. Lyn Nofziger was to recruit a team of American Nazis to disrupt the Wallace candidacy in California? Mr. SLOAN. Senator I have no knowledge of that. I believe my statement yesterday with regard to the $10,000, there was as we went, through this list, it was a question, an inquiry, as to did you know what any of these expenditures were for in the case of Mr. Nofziger in California. I had said subsequent to that disbursement I had heard by rumor and I cannot even tell you who from, it had something to do with the Wallace campaign in California, but, that, is the extent of my knowledge in that matter. Senator MONTOYA. Now, in your meeting with Mr, Ehrlichman, I believe it was on July or June 23, at the White House? Mr. SLOAN. Yes, sir, [brief shot Sen. INOUYE listening to testimony] Senator MONTOYA. You started discussing with Mr. Ehrlichman the problem of how you were going to face up to the reporting of the cash disbursement, is that correct? Mr. SLOAN. No, No, sir. I have no precise recollection of how and to what depth or dimension I expressed my concern to him. I think it was in the nature that it was by way Of just, indicating to him that I think there is a problem. [brief shot of the audience in caucus room] I did not get to the point, I am sure, of mentioning names or leveling allegations at, anybody. Senator MONTOYA. Well, in what context did you place that observation to him that there was a problem? There must have, been some context, Mr. SLOAN. Oh, yes, sir. The party on the boat on the Potomac the night before--I think probably -that, day or in that period of time, it had become known that these gentlemen with McCord in the room at the Watergate had $5,300 in hundred dollar bills, I Obviously had an initial concern with regard to "Mr. Liddy's first remark. When the money issue came Up, it, obviously indicated to me that there might be a direct connection, that that money may in fact have been money that, I had given to Mr. Liddy of- to somebody in the campaign. I think what I was expressing is we have, a situation here where there is 110 accountability of these funds as far as I know. At least, there has been none, to me, and as far as I know, Secretary Stans does not know. In light of this, there is a suspicion, a possibility that there is a connection. What I was trying to convey--I do not, know how hard I pressed the point. What 'I was trying to convey to Mr. Ehrlichman and Mr. Chapin was that I thought it, Was ell more serious problem than any individual I had seen, either in the White House or in the campaign appeared to be taking at that point. [00.24.54]