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20 mile team wagon
ON PREVIEW CASSETTE #201922 20 mile team wagon
July 19, 1995 - Part 1
(09:45:45) Mr. HUBBELL. I know Bernie pretty well. He can speak. for himself. Senator SHELBY. He can defend himself, can't he? Mr. HUBBELL. But the one thing that comes to my mind is that I had the benefit of having a Phil Heymann who could take over anything I couldn't do. Bernie was by himself to a large extent, and the time constraints were not the same as you would probably like in this type of situation. I'm not trying to defend Bernie. Bernie, I'm sure-I know Bernie, you all know Bernie-will speak for himself. But the one factor that comes to mind of why Bernie didn't stay completely out of it would be the time factor. Senator SHELBY. Mr. Hubbell, why would anyone try to put up barriers to searching or looking through an office by law enforcement people unless they had something to hide? Mr. HUBBELL. I know Senator SHELBY. In other words, if you have nothing to hide, why wouldn't you say look, we have nothing to hide, you come on in, instead of trying to put up barriers? Mr. HUBBELL. There were files in my office, Senator, that had national security issues, had attorney-client issues, and if I had committed suicide, I'm sure the Attorney General would have been reluctant to share those with law enforcement people until there had been a review. Senator SHELBY. But in this case it was not the Attorney General. The Department of Justice thought they had an agreement with the White House Counsel to go in there. Probably what they should have done is had a search warrant issued by a magistrate from hour one, and there would have been no problem, would there? Mr. HUBBELL. I believe that if there was a search warrant, there would still be national security and attorney-client issues. But, again, Mr, Nussbaum can speak to this. I'm speculating on what his concerns were. Senator SHELBY. Let me ask you this, Mr. Hubbell. The Department of Justice, where you were the number three person, had Janet Reno, Attorney General. You had Philip Heymann, Deputy Attorney General, and you as the number three person. But don't the Department of Justice lawyers have security clearances? Mr. HUBBELL. Some of us do. Some of us do not. Senator SHELBY. YOU could send the proper ones over there to look at the ones-I mean, you would know quickly who had secu- 77 rity clearances and would be able to go in and look at anything, wouldn't you? Mr. HUBBELL. If it were me, I believe I had the security clearance to look at those files, yes, Senator SHELBY. So you could-if you hadn't recused yourself, you would have been the proper person to go over there? Mr. HUBBELL. No, I don't believe I was the proper person to go over there. Senator SHELBY. If you had not had the close relationship, you could have done that? Mr. HUBBELL. I could have been one, yes. Senator SHELBY. According to your testimony also, Mr. Hubbell, Mr. Heymann, I believe, told you that he felt that he had communicated his concerns to Mr. Nussbaum and that everything was worked out. In other words, they had reached an agreement that it was unnecessary to follow up with a call; is that correct? Mr. HUBBELL. That is correct. Senator SHELBY. When did this conversation take place? Mr. HUBBELL. I believe it was the Tuesday when I returned, probably the 25th. Senator SHELBY. Was this before or after the note was disclosed to the Department of Justice and the Park Police? Mr. HUBBELL. I do not know when the note was disclosed to the Park Police or Justice. I only know when I found out about it, which was later. Senator SHELBY. Do you know if there was any renewed concern or difficulty expressed by anyone at the Department of Justice or Phil Heymann, who was over there at Justice, over the White House delay in releasing the note to law enforcement officials? Mr. HUBBELL. The only thing I recall was articles in the press about it, but I was not made aware of the note until it made the press. Senator SHELBY. Why would they delay the release of something like that that was central to this investigation? Mr. HUBBELL. I really don't know, Senator. I believe I read they were trying to locate Mrs. Foster and advise her of the note. Senator SHELBY. I believe you also testified, Mr. Hubbell, that you asked him-you were talking about Heymann-Mr. Heymann, if he thought that Mr. Nussbaum was interfering with the investigation, and he said that he didn't think so, but that there were concerns, and that could lead to problems. I believe they were the words or similar to that? Mr. HUBBELL. Words similar to that. I don't believe I asked him if he thought Bernie was interfering. I think he told me that he thought Bernie was not interfering, but others had concerns. Senator SHELBY. It could lead to problems, in other words, in what he was doing?. Mr. HUBBELL. That's correct. Senator SHELBY. It did, didn't it? Mr. HUBBELL, He talked to Bernie, and he said he had worked it out.
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