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July 19, 1995 - Part 3
(12:50:19) Mr. HUBBELL. I thought I gave you an example. If Vince had in his office a short list of Supreme Court candidates, and the pros and cons of that list, if I were a White House Counsel, I would not want to share that with an FBI agent. Based on my experience as Associate Attorney General, I would not want to share that. I would want to claim executive privilege on that document and not share it with anyone other than the people who should know what's in that document, I don't know if that's the case, but I'm trying to give you an example. Senator SHELBY. I know that. Mr. HUBBELL. That's the kind of information I wouldn't want broadcast all over town. Senator SHELBY. But what would be wrong with inventorying things together and then saying this item is something, let me tell you what this is without going into the content? Mr. HUBBELL. I think we've discussed that. I have no thought with that process, and I think you and I have discussed that. I'm just trying to give you an example that would give me great concern. Senator SHELBY. You didn't see anything wrong with that process, did you, that I mentioned? Mr. HUBBELL. No, I did not. Senator SHELBY. Thank you. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Grams. Senator GRAMS. Mr. Chairman, I will be brief. I just have a couple of quick questions that I wanted to ask to clear up the time. 132 What time did you arrive at the home of Vince Foster that night? Mr. HUBBELL. I do not know. I assume it's between 9 and 10 p.m., but I don't know. Senator GRAMS. I think, according to some testimony from the Park Police it was around 10 p.m. when they arrived and you ar- rived at the I same time, Mr. HUBBELL. Same time. Senator GRAMS. There was a report, also, that you were on your cellular phone while you were at the Mr. HUBBELL. Yes. Senator GRAMS. What was that? Mr. HUBBELL. The Fosters only had one phone in the kitchen, and the house was quite crowded. It wasn't my cellular phone. I believe I borrowed David's, and Mack's when he got there, and then went out to Bill Kennedy's. There were a lot of arrangements that had to be made. I was responsible for contacting the funeral home in Little Rock. I was responsible or took responsibility for talking to several of the Fosters' pastors. The phone was ringing off the wall with people from Little Rock wanting to know what in the world was going on, and Lisa was unable to talk to them; they would ask to talk to me. So I was on the phone, I'm sure, most of the night. I remember-I think David's battery wore down, Mack's battery wore down, and we were using the phone in Bill's car. But the phone was ringing off the wall. Senator GRAMS. You also said you did not talk official business that night, that was the furthest thing from your mind at that moment? Mr. HUBBELL. That's correct. Senator GRAMS. Also, you said there were no conversations of what to do next on an official basis because you were really consumed in what you had to do that night; is that correct? Mr. HUBBELL. Yes, we immediately the question was how do we get Vince home, when can we get Vince home, what type of service can we have? All those horrible questions I hope people don't ever have to do, we had to do that evening. Senator GRAMS. I'm going to ask Mr. Nussbaum the same question, but don't you find it odd that Bernie Nussbaum, who was with the President in the residence that night and left the President as he left to come to Vince Foster's home, that Bernie would decide to go to the office rather than coming to the home to console Vince Foster's family? Do you find it odd that the note or whatever was so paramount to the family that he decided to go from the President's residence to the office? Mr. HUBBELL. I think if there was a note in Vince's office that it would-I think there wasn't a person in the world who that night didn't ask, Webb, have you found a note? So I think it would be logical, before Bernie left, to go into Vince's office and look for a note. I would find it unusual if nobody went in and looked and saw if there was a note on his desk or not. Senator GRAMS. But you don't find it odd that that was his first decision? Rather than going to the residence with the President, that he decided to go to the office? Mr. HUBBELL. I don't think any of us acted logically, so I don't-I can't attribute the right-if that was the right decision or not. I 133 can tell you that we all were in such shock that Vince would kill himself that we were saying why, why in the world, what was so bad? I mean, we were all guilty. That was the one day that I was in the White House that I didn't stop and see Vince, It's something I live with all the time. So we were all saying why? Is there a note? So I'm confident that Bernie would have gone and looked for a note. It just seems logical to me. Senator GRAMS. I have no further questions.
Ferry across river
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On Preview Cassette 222342. Berlin, Germany. East Berlin - buildings, Stalin, statue, memorial, East/West Berlin night/day, airport in Berlin ?, propaganda
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Berlin in the snow riding through snowy streets, bombed out buildings, late 40's
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July 19, 1995 - Part 3
(12:55:20) The CHAIRMAN. Senator Sarbanes. Senator SARBANES. Senator Dodd. Senator DODD. Just briefly, I think, for purposes of clarity here. In fact, Bernie Nussbaum did go to the Foster home, is that not true, that evening? Mr. HUBBELL. I don't know, Senator. I just-I mean, I don't know. I don't know if he did or he didn't. Senator DODD. In terms of going in the office, were there others, do you know about other staff or persons in the White House when he did go to the White House? Mr. HUBBELL. I'm sorry? Senator DODD. None of the White House staff were present in the White House when Mr. Nussbaum went up, back up to his office? Mr. HUBBELL. I don't know that. I really don't know what Vince-I mean, Bernie did that night. Senator DODD. I would just, Mr. Chairman, point out there is evidence- we'll hear it down the road-that Mr. Nussbaum went and he called, that he was to call White House personnel so they might hear it from him, rather than hear it over the broadcast news, and hear it from people who are pretty close to each other, which 1 find to be a relatively normal thing to do. I mean, I certainly, that to me would be the way a person would react, rather than having people who work pretty closely to have to turn on their radios or televisions that night and hear it for the first time. Mr. HUBBELL. Senator, we had the same concerns with people back in Arkansas, including Vince's mother, of having to makeyou asked about telephone calls. We had to call people back in Arkansas. We didn't want them to hear it on TV. So I'm sure Bernie had the same concerns there. That's why, I'm sure, George called me. I would have hated to turn on the TV and seen Vince's picture there. I can imagine what that would do to the people in the White House Counsel's Office. Senator DODD. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Senator SARBANES. Senator Kerry. Senator KERRY. Just a few questions, if I may. Let me also say it's interesting that we spent an awful lot of time finding out what has surprised you or what you have found strange, but the bottom line remains that, in terms of the handling of the documents, you had precious little involvement. In terms of finding facts here, Many questions have been asked about extraneous issues which You were not firsthand with but which leave things hanging out there, not the least of which is this most recent round about Patsy Thomasson. 134 I mean, in the context of the evening, just to review the facts for 60 seconds, David Watkins was the first to arrive at the Foster home, and Patsy Thomasson worked for David Watkins. David Watkins, the evidence shows, asked if there was a note in the Foster office, and I believe he beeped Patsy Thomasson; is that correct, Mr. Hubbell? Mr. HUBBELL. I don't know. Senator KERRY. You don't even know that. The record shows that he beeped Patsy Thomasson, asked her to go to Foster's off-ice to see if there was a note. There is nothing in the record that shows that she went there to look at files. In fact, three people were there: Bernie Nussbaum, Maggie Williams, and Patsy Thomasson, all of whom the testimony shows were looking for a note. They were there for about 10 minutes. But the way these questions are somehow posed as to what seems strange or what seems surprising, there's an inference there that somehow this is something out of the ordinary. I would like to just review very, very quickly-because we have another panel coming and this will be relevant. When you arrived at the Foster home, and the testimony in answer to Senator Grams was it was somewhere in the vicinity of 10 P.M., the Park Police were arriving or had arrived at that time? Mr. HUBBELL. I believe they were about to go in the door when I jumped out of the car and was right there. Senator KERRY. So you saw them for the first time right at the door to the house itself? Mr. HUBBELL. Yes. Senator KERRY. They had not yet gone into the house. Mr. HUBBELL. That's correct. Senator KERRY. Who initiated a conversation with them? Mr. HUBBELL. I believe I did. Senator KERRY. Do you remember what that was? Mr. HUBBELL. I believe I asked if I could notify Senator KERRY. Did you ask them who they were first? Did you know why they were there? Mr. HUBBELL, I saw David, and I had been told by George Stephanopoulos that David and the Park Police were on their way to notify Lisa, so I just assumed they were Park Police. Senator KERRY. I see. Was David there at the time? Mr. HUBBELL. David Watkins? Yes. Senator KERRY. He had not notified her? Mr. HUBBELL. No, David had actually-I think he rode with the Park Police to the Foster Senator KERRY. So David was outside the house, too? Mr. HUBBELL. Right.