Advanced Search
August 3, 1994 - Part 8
(18:59:36)(tape #10083 begins) Senator CAMPBELL. That's fine. I'm really interested in the chain of command of who does the assigning of issues and who gets advice from who before moving on any issue. Mr. KLEIN. Typically, Senator, the Counsel to the President, Mr. Nussbaum first, now Mr. Cutler, has overall responsibility for matters. The way, I think, both gentlemen worked was as follows-at least when I was Deputy, and I was only Deputy since December of last year-and that is on many matters, they would deal directly with an Associate Counsel who had-for example, on an ethical matter deal directly with Beth Nolan, on a matter involving some Constitutional issue, might deal directly with Cliff Sloan and so forth. There were other matters that they would assign to me, and then I would reassign some of those or supervise some of those. And that's the way it worked basically, sir. Senator CAMPBELL. If you were Counsel who was assigned a certain area, then you didn't need direction from Mr, Nussbaum. Is that the way it worked? Mr. KLEIN. Again, it would depend on the activity. I think most of the people kept Mr. Nussbaum informed of what they were doing, although, like any people, they exercised some discretion on their own. Senator CAMPBELL. Who directed Mr. Podesta to call Mr. Altman? Mr. KLEIN. My understanding of that is that when these events occurred, there was, I think, as has been said here, some concern, Mr. Eggleston, myself other people. The Chief of Staff, Mr. McLarty, was obviously concerned this matter be dealt with accurately and straightforward and I think he asked Mr. Podesta to kind of get on top of this. That's my impression. You can check with the two of them. Senator CAMPBELL. Would you give me a little rundown again? The press said it took 7 days after the hearing of February 21st for that call to be made and you corrected that and said it wasn't. It was more like 5 and it was because it started on a Thursday and Mr. Nussbaum was in Mexico. Was that Mr. KLEIN. That's correct. Basically, what Mr. Eggleston said which was that he was at the meeting-he was at the hearing on Thursday the 24th, and he Senator CAMPBELL. And you felt that you needed his approval for Mr.- maybe I'm mixed up a little bit here, but Mr. Podesta is a Staff Secretary, is he not? Mr. KLEIN. He is a Staff Secretary, yes, sir. Senator CAMPBELL. Did he need your approval or Mr. Nussbaum's approval to make the call? Mr. KLEIN. I don't think he needed anyone's approval. I think certainly the people on our staff thought it was very important to report this information, to have Mr. Nussbaum there. The information essentially--the hearing ended, obviously, on the end of the day Thursday. The information was in the press on Friday. I learned of some of the information from Mr. Sloan later Friday afternoon. Monday morning, Mr. Nussbaum was going to be back 138 in the office and we got right on it. Tuesday afternoon, we made the phone call, Senator CAMPBELL. Even after that call, it took about another 3 weeks to get the record corrected; is that correct? Mr. KLEIN. Well, there was a series of follow-up letters. I don't have the dates in front of me. Senator CAMPBELL. Were you involved in consultations with Mr, Altman during that period of time? Mr. KLEIN. No, sir, Senator CAMPBELL. Who was? Was there anybody in the White House Counsel who was? Mr. KLEIN. Nobody in the White House Counsel, to my knowledge. The only person I know who had that original phone call was Mr. Podesta. Senator CAMPBELL. Ms. Nolan, you were part of the White House team that discussed whether the White House should correct Mr. Altman's testimony; is that correct? Ms. NOLAN. Senator Campbell, I was in one discussion about it. Senator CAMPBELL. Would you tell us who was also in that discussion? Ms. NOLAN. Mr. Klein, Mr. Nussbaum and, I believe, Mr. Eggleston. Senator CAMPBELL, Was there any difference of opinion or a feeling that perhaps it was unnecessary to make any part of corrections--when you had that meeting, was there sort of a unified approach when you ended up about what corrections should be made or Ms. NOLAN. The part of the discussions I was in, I don't think we reached a final conclusion. What I recall was that the issue was being discussed. This was the first day that Mr. Nussbaum was back, that Monday. And I just recall that we were exploring the issue, so I don't recall a particular conclusion. Senator CAMPBELL. After it was corrected, did Mr. Altman's March 2nd letter to correct the record reflect what you had discussed in that meeting? Ms. NOLAN. Senator Senator CAMPBELL. To the best of your recollection. Ms. NOLAN. I'm not familiar with the letter and I didn't participate in follow- up meetings. Senator CAMPBELL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll yield. The CHAIRMAN, Thank you, Senator Campbell. Senator Hatch. Senator HATCH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to say, having listened to all of you, I think the White House is served well by its Legal Counsel down there at this time, at least the four of you. But let me ask a couple of questions, Mr. Eggleston, if I can direct them to you, maybe you can help us. You understood from your discussions with Mr. Nussbaum following the February 2nd meeting at the White House that he was very concerned that if Mr. Altman recused himself, Jack Ryan and Ellen Kulka would be in charge of decisionmaking in the Madison Guaranty case; is that right? Mr, EGGLESTON. Mr. Hatch, he was not-he was never concerned about Mr. Ryan. There was never any discussion. 139 Senator HATCH. There was concern about Ellen Kulka? Mr. EGGLESTON. Yes.
Old Wild Flowers
Mt. MiseryCanchalagua
Old Wild Flowers
"Cocoon" on oak& Pride of the Mountain
Old Wild Flowers
Bush Lupine ***
Old Wild Flowers
Yosemite wild flowers
Wild Flowers
High country wildflowers
Wild Flowers
Cow parsnip II
Wild Flowers
Ferns
Wild Flowers
Ferns
Wildflowers
Buckwheat oN PREVIEW CASSETTE 97153
Wildflowers
Wild lilac & C.U.
Wild Flowers
Wallflowersbeing pollunated by a butterfly & a bee
Wild Flowers
Red flowers ***near tunnelC.U. not sharp
Wild Flowers
Moss? Lichens?
Wild Flowers
wild lilac ***
Wild Florews
Mt AstersBlue (garage)--Large low bush(white)L-s, Bathersrivercow parsnips
August 3, 1994 - Part 8
(19:05:15) Senator HATCH. And as I understand it, in your deposition, you did say "Mr. Ryan, of whom he had no opinion. Of course, actually it was my understanding with Ryan, she is just involved in the process, but I don't want to overdo this. " You were asked the question "did Mr. Nussbaum state a concern that absent Mr. Altman's involvement in Madison-related matters it would be left in the hands of Mr. Ryan, whom he didn't know, and Ms. Kulka, of whom he had a low opinion?" And your answer was "yes-I mean I should say--and earlier I sort of qualified this--I think these conversations were pre-February 2nd, my best recollection is that these were pre-February 2nd." Then the next question was, "was this an issue that Mr. Nussbaum appeared to be concerned about? "Answer: I can only tell you what he said. "Question: You can't tell us in your experience whether he was more concerned than he was about most issues or less concerned? "Answer: I can't. It was just an issue. "Question: Did any other White House staff members, to your knowledge, state similar views or concerns before February 2, 1994? "Answer: Not that I recall. I don't think anybody else had any knowledge of Ms. Kulka or Mr. Ryan," et cetera. Now, you took part in the meeting with John Podesta and Todd Stern regarding the hiring of Jay Stephens by the RTC? Mr. EGGLESTON. Yes. I'm saying yes, I sort of vaguely remember. Senator HATCH. You were there? Mr. EGGLESTON. Yes. Senator HATCH. OK. And in this meeting, Mr. Podesta wanted to find out if Mr. Stephens had been hired; right? Mr. EGGLESTON. Sir, I remember making a call to Ms. Hanson either on the 24th or on the 25th to ask about that question. I'm sorry, sir, I don't quite remember this meeting. I probably would have made that call at the request of somebody. It may well have been Mr. Podesta'. Senator HATCH. Did you understand from this meeting that Mr. Podesta would have preferred that Mr. Stephens not be working for RTC on the Madison Guaranty matter? Mr. EGGLESTON. I can only describe it this way. People were generally stunned that the RTC would have hired Mr. Stephens, and I don't think that anybody I heard said we should do something about it or something like that. People around the White House were stunned that they would have hired Jay Stephens. Senator HATCH. Would have hired Jay Stephens. Mr. EGGLESTON. Yes, sir. Senator HATCH, On February 25, the day Mr. Altman decided to recuse himself from the Madison Guaranty matter, you called Jean Hanson, as you just said to confirm that Jay Stephens had been hired? Mr. EGGLESTON. Yes, sir. Senator HATCH, And you expressed to Ms. Hanson the White House's displeasure? Mr. EGGLESTON. I don't think I did. Senator HATCH, You don't think you did. 140 Mr. EGGLESTON. I think I just-I was very sensitive to this issue by the morning of the 25th. I think I called her. I asked her whether it was public information. I told her that it was-that Mr. Alt man had testified the day before that it was Pillsbury, Madison & Sutro. I called to ask her whether it was Jay Stephens, the attor- ney, and I think I said to her, I assume that's public information, By the morning the of the 25th I'm sensitive to what information I'm getting from the Treasury about this issue, and I don't think I did convey back to her that we were unhappy. Senator HATCH. Did you discuss with Ms. Hanson who at the RTC would be making the--who actually would be making the de cisions in the Madison Guaranty matter now that Mr. Altman had recused himself? Mr. EGGLESTON. I did not. Senator HATCH. I believe you said earlier that you had discussions with several White House officials about the hiring of Jay Stephens. Could you name with whom you've had those discussions? Mr. EGGLESTON. The ones that I really think about that I talked to--I indicated to you earlier I couldn't remember having a meeting. I remember talking about it with Mr. Podesta and Mr. Stern. Mr. Stem is Mr. Podesta's Deputy. They have off-ices next to each other. Senator HATCH. Sure. Let me ask you some questions about a February 28, 1994 memo from you to Harold Ickes, the White House Deputy Chief of Staff. First, let me ask you, are you aware that the very next day, March 1st, Mr. Ickes forwarded your memo to the First Lady? Mr. EGGLESTON. I am now aware. I was not aware of that then. Senator HATCH. You testified that Mr. Ickes asked you to prepare your February 28th memo. Did you also talk with Mr. Nussbaum about this memo? Mr. EGGLESTON. I don't recall. I would have prepared a memo like this only at the request of Mr. Ickes. I would not have necessarily checked it with Mr. Nussbaum. Senator HATCH. Would Nussbaum have seen it? Would he have approved it? Mr. EGGLESTON. He would not necessarily-I'm sorry? Senator HATCH. But he looked at it? Mr. EGGLESTON. He would not have necessarily approved it. I may have given him a copy. Senator HATCH. The reason I ask you is because you said in the last paragraph here, "we intend to nominate a person for the position of CEO for the RTC within the next few weeks," and you said you learned that from Bernie Nussbaum himself. Mr. EGGLESTON. Yes, I think that's right, but I think I learned that not in connection with the preparation of this memo. I think I knew that independently. Senator HATCH. On the last page, page 6 of your memo, it addresses the question "who at the RTC would be the decisionmaker in whether to bring a civil action arising out of the failure of Madison Guaranty?" Now, this question had been a subject of intense interest at the White House ever since Mr. Altman first raised the prospect that he would recuse himself-, isn't that right? 141
Idaho Falls ***
Idaho Falls ***
San Diego
ON PREVIEW CASSETTE 210371 San Diego
spokane **Last is long pan
spokane **Last is long pan
Prescott, Arizona
Prescott, Arizona
Butte (Montana)mines
Butte (Montana)mines
The Capital, Sacremento
The Capital, Sacremento
Supreme Court; Sacramento & Capital
Supreme Court; Sacramento & Capital