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Single Red Pond Lilly
August 3, 1994 - Part 4
(15:15:06) Senator DODD. My point is, if you had to do it over again, would you send them down here? Mr. LUDWIG. I don't know, Senator. They were public documents. I had nothing to do with them. I want to emphasize that I checked with our counsel to make sure that they were public documents, and I'm not sure how I would Senator DODD. I'm not going to dwell on it, but it seems to me, the kind of transmissions of those things-lastly, I was intrigued going back to the inquiries that you made, and it sounded to me like you did the right thing calling various people to determine whether or not the questions, and inquiries to you were something you could respond to and you talked to a number of people. You mentioned you talked to Jean Hanson at the Treasury Department, and I'm particularly interested in that conversation. We've had a lot of talk up here the last several days, as you are no doubt aware, about Ms. Hanson. Now, as I understand it here, she seemed to have some reservations and cautioned you against giving the President advice on this matter. That's your testimony; is that not correct? Mr. LUDWIG. Yes, She had a cautionary note in her voice, as best I can recollect, and then suggested that I speak with Bernard Nussbaum, the Counsel to the President. Senator DODD. This was sometime between Christmas and New Year's 1993? Mr. LUDWIG. This was just prior to New Year's 1993. Senator DODD. Did Ms. Hanson say to you that at any point before I talk to you, I may have to check with someone here in the Treasury Department? Was there any reluctance on her part to discuss this issue with you? Mr. LUDWIG. As best I recollect, she didn't seem to know a great deal about the facts, Senator DODD. That was not my question. Was she reluctant in any way to discuss this matter with you? Mr. LUDWIG. It was such a brief conversation and really the import of which was to pass me on, more than anything else, to Mr. Nussbaum. Senator DODD. Did she seem reluctant to talk to Mr. Nussbaum? Did you get any indication she knew Mr. Nussbaum fairly well, that she was comfortable making that suggestion? Mr. LUDWIG. No. It was a very brief conversation, and I had a feeling she was uncertain as to who to speak with and passed me on to Bernard Nussbaum, that she said just to call him. Senator DODD. Mr. Chairman, thank you. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Bond. 76 Senator BOND. Just a couple quick follow-up questions. I was going over notes as you were talking. You mentioned having reviewed the testimony of Mr. Sloan; is that correct? Mr. I did not review the testimony of Mr. Sloan. I don It think I said that. Senator BOND. I wrote down, that you said you read the deposition of Mr. Sloan. Mr. LUDWIG. Oh, no, I never said I read the deposition of Mr. Sloan. I am aware that Mr. Sloan was deposed--either from the newspaper or- I'm not sure where-maybe it was because at my deposition, Counsel to the Majority or Minority inquired of me in respect of Mr. Sloan's recollection. I think that was it, But I certainly have never read Mr. Sloan's deposition or testimony or anything like that. Senator BOND. I just wanted to check on that. And one final point, when the President spoke with you briefly in that crowded room, do you recall him saying anything about a op-ed piece? Mr. LUDWIG. I don't recall that, sir. Senator BOND. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Shelby. Senator SHELBY. Mr. Ludwig, your current job now, and was when you were at Renaissance Weekend is, Comptroller of the Currency? Mr. LUDWIG. Yes. Senator SHELBY. As Comptroller of the Currency, you're the top regulator of the national banking system, are you not? Mr. LUDWIG. Yes, sir. Senator SHELBY. And before this, you were an active lawyer in Washington, DC dealing with banking regulation work, were you not? Mr. LUDWIG. Yes, sir, Senator SHELBY. Before you were nominated and confirmed for that? Mr. LUDWIG. Yes, sir, I practiced banking law and did some teaching in this area. Senator SHELBY. Adjunct professor. Mr. LUDWIG. Yes, that sort of thing. Senator SHELBY. Where did you teach? Mr. LUDWIG. I gave lectures at Harvard I Yale and Georgetown. Senator SHELBY, In regulatory law? Mr. LUDWIG. Banking regulatory matters. Senator SHELBY. Now, you knew the President of the United States. I'm not saying you knew him from-you've known him since you were 5 years old and so forth, but you went to Oxford with him and you went to Yale Law School with him. Mr. LUDWIG. Yes, sir, I did. Senator SHELBY. And you were involved, to some degree, in his presidential race. Mr. LUDWIG. I was, sir.
August 3, 1994 - Part 5
(15:47:10) Hearing host NINA TOTENBERG segues back to Senate Hearings: Do you swear the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God. The WITNESSES. I do. The CHAIRMAN. I understand that Mr. Klein is the senior person at the table that you have a statement that you want to make 86 and then some of the others-I gather some of the others may have as well. Mr. Eggleston, do you have one? Mr. EGGLESTON. I do. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Sloan? Mr. SLOAN. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. Ms. Nolan? Ms. NOLAN. I do. The CHAIRMAN. You all have statements, so we'll start with you, Mr. Klein, and we'll come down the table. TESTIMONY OF JOEL 1. KLEIN, DEPUTY COUNSEL TO THE PRESIDENT Mr. KLEIN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee, my name is Joel Klein and since December 1, 1993, 1 have served as Deputy Counsel to the President- first under Bernard Nussbaum and then under Lloyd Cutler. My only direct involvement in any of the socalled White House-Treasury contacts relates to the matter that Mr. Ludwig just testified about. In late December of last year, my family and I were attending a Renaissance Weekend in Hilton Head, South Carolina, at which the President was also in attendance. At about 4:00 p.m, on December 30th, I received a call' from Associate White House Counsel, Neil Eggleston, who stated that Eugene Ludwig, the Comptroller of the Currency, had called Cliff Sloan, also an Associate White House Counsel, and requested information concerning the Whitewater/ Madison Guaranty matter, indicating that the President had asked to speak to him about it. Mr. Eggleston said he and Mr. Sloan thought that even though Mr. Ludwig was not involved in the matter, it would be better that the President not talk to Mr.Ludwig, given his position as Comptroller. I agreed and told Mr. Eggleston that I would take care of it. I then went to see the President who was at the time at a Renaissance session and after the session I took him aside and I said that my office had been called and had indicated to me that Mr. Ludwig had requested information so that he could talk to the President about Whitewater. The President responded to me that Mr. Ludwig must have misunderstood him because he had only wanted to ask for the names of people knowledgeable in banking I and real estate who might be able to explain Whitewater to the public in simple terms.
August 3, 1994 - Part 5
(15:55:37) I also participated in the February 2, 1994 meeting with Mr. Altman and others in the White House. During that meeting, I learned nothing whatsoever about the substance of the RTC civil investigation into Madison. The meeting principally concerned the procedures the RTC would follow in deciding whether to bring civil actions or to seek a tolling agreement to prevent the running of the then-applicable statute of limitations. With regard to the subject of Mr. Altman's consideration of the recusal issue, I recall that was discussed during the meeting, and I recall that three points were made. First, that if Mr. Altman had a legal or ethical obligation to recuse himself, he would do so immediately. Second, that regardless of whether he formally recused himself, he was going to be recused de facto since he stated that he would follow whatever recommendation was made to him by the career officials at the RTC. And third, at the conclusion of that meeting, the decision of whether Mr. Altman should or should not recuse himself was left entirely up to him. Finally, with regard to the February 24, 1994 RTC oversight hearing before this Committee, I participated with others in the White House in an effort to ensure that Mr. Altman give a full account of the White House-Treasury contacts. Mr. Chairman, I have been subject to a deposition of more than several hours duration by the staff of this Committee, and I have discussed with them in that deposition in great detail my knowledge of the White House-Treasury contacts. I am prepared to answer any questions that any Member of this Committee may have of me. Thank you , sir. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Eggleston. Mr. Sloan, CLIFFORD M. SLOAN, ASSOCIATE COUNSEL TO THE PRESIDENT Mr. SLOAN. Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee, MY name is Clifford Sloan. I want to thank you for the opportunity to appear today before this Committee. I have been an Associate Counsel to the President since June 1993. In the course of my duties in the White House Counsel's Office, I was contacted by officials of the Department of the Treasury connection with press inquiries and interest in Madison Guaranty I Savings & Loan. These conversations consisted of a brief mention 89 by Jean Hanson, the General Counsel of the Treasury, after a meeting at the White House on a different subject on September 29, 1993; a few subsequent telephone calls from Ms. Hanson in the days thereafter; and a meeting of White House and Treasury officials on October 14, 1993. A few months later, on December 30, 1993, the Comptroller of the Currency, Mr. Eugene Ludwig, also called me briefly concerning Madison. As I know you are aware, I recently spent several hours in a deposition with both the Majority and Minority staff of this Committee, answering their questions about this matter. And of course, I will be happy to answer any questions here today as well. Before I do so, I would like to make just a couple of brief points. Neither I nor anyone else in the White House ever sought to influence or even to comment upon the decision to refer the Madison matter to the Justice Department for further investigation, nor did I or any White House personnel ever seek to influence or comment about the manner in which the referral was worded or who was mentioned in it. Likewise, to my knowledge, no Treasury or RTC official ever sought or invited any comment by the White House at any time about whether a referral should be made or what form it should take, From the first mention of the Madison referral by Ms. Hanson on September 29, each of these conversations was in the context of actual or potential press interest in the matter. I will be happy to help the Committee in any way I can. Thank you. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Ms. Nolan, we'd be pleased to hear from you now. sBETH NOLAN, ASSOCIATE COUNSEL TO THE PRESIDENT
Day Night Blooming
Single Blossoms
Day Night Blooming
Night Cereus and dark blue skys
Day Night Blooming
One blossom Cereus
Cactus
Red Cactus Fruit ****
Cactus
Mexican CactusRed fruit
August 3, 1994 - Part 5
(15:50:34) This matter had been much in the news at that time and the President said to me that he was concerned that it was not being fairly understood. I replied that even that kind of innocuous conversation could subsequently be misconstrued and that it would be' preferable if the President had no discussions of any sort with Mr. Ludwig about Whitewater. The President agreed and asked me to,: so inform Mr. Ludwig. I returned to my hotel room, and I called Mr. Ludwig, whom I had not previously met. He was not in his room so I left a message later that evening, I met Mr. Ludwig by chance, I took him aside, explained that I had learned of his call to Mr. Sloan. and that 87 had talked to the President, who had decided that the two of them should not discuss anything about Whitewater. And I believe that was the end of the matter. My only other involvement in these matters came about in response to Roger Altman's February 24, 1994 testimony before this Committee. On the following day, Friday the 25th, Cliff Sloan came to MY office and told me that although Mr. Altman had said there was only one meeting between White House and Treasury officials concerning Madison, Mr. Sloan was aware of two additional meetings and several phone conversations with Jean Hanson that had taken place in late September through early October, 1993, prior to the time I had joined the Counsel's Office. In addition, I had previously learned from Mr. Nussbaum, in a conversation that occurred approximately one week after the February 2nd meeting, that Mr. Altman had raised the issue of his recusal at that February 2nd meeting. The press accounts on February 25th, quoting Mr. Altman's testimony, made no reference to the recusal. Although I had no information about Mr. Altman's knowledge, I was concerned about these omissions in his testimony. On Monday, February 28, 1994, when Mr. Nussbaum returned from an out-of- town trip, I raised these concerns with him. After he and I discussed the matter, Mr. Nussbaum asked me to talk to John Podesta, Staff Secretary, who was already aware of these issues, having discussed them previously with Mr. Eggleston. Mr. Podesta subsequently met with several members of the White House staff, including myself, to decide what actions would be appropriate in this occasion. After these discussions, Mr. Podesta called Mr. Altman and relayed our concerns about his testimony. Mr. Chairman, that sums up my involvement in these events, I will be glad to amplify in response to your questions. Thank you. The CHAIRMAN, Thank you, Mr. Klein. Mr. Eggleston. W. NEIL EGGLESTON, ASSOCIATE COUNSEL TO THE PRESIDENT Mr. EGGLESTON. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, my name is Neil Eggleston. I'm an Associate Counsel to the President. I started working at the White House in September 1993, shortly before the events that are the subject of these hearings began. Mr. Chairman, I've spent a large portion of my professional career in public service. I am proud of that public service, and I am proud that I have now worked in all three branches of Government. In the late 1970's, I served as a law clerk to two Federal judges, including the Honorable Warren E. Burger, when he was Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court. From 1981 through 1987, 1 was an Assistant U.S. Attorney in the Southern District of New York. 1, left that job in 1987 to work for the House of Representatives as Deputy Chief Counsel of the House Select Committee investigating the Iran-Contra affair. As previous testimony before this Committee has now made clear, I was involved in some of the contacts between the Treasury Department and the White House in this matter. As to each of contacts, I was acting in my official capacity, assisting others III responding to press and congressional issues. 88 The first meeting that I recall attending with members of the Treasury Department occurred on October 14, 1993, As I recall, that meeting related to press inquiries that the Department of the Treasury had received about criminal referrals on the Madison matter. Those press inquiries were apparently prompted by detailed leaks from someone in the RTC to the news media, including the fact that the Clintons' names appeared in the referrals. I do not believe that I learned any information during that meeting that was not prompted by those press inquiries. And indeed, leaks from the RTC appeared a few weeks later in articles in The Washington Post and The New York Times. I have no reason whatsoever to believe that any White House official took any steps to influence the RTC based on the information that the White House received concerning the criminal referrals.
Kids Playing In River
Kids in river, playing in water -- Philippines or Indonesia Nice shot as kids go bounding into river. They turn around and smile for the camera. 01:09:07 Medium shot of kida playing in the bend of the river. Foliage on other side gives a more enclosed feeling to the space. 01:09:10 Closer take of boys still facing camera 01:09:16 Take from CU as the boys come bounding out faces close to the camera. 01:09:22 END Section of film removed for client transfer. Remainder of roll transferred later on this tape.
Unreal Newsreel No. 1
Cheesy recreation of tornado - wind blowing through houses, strange shots of man being blown along by strong wind. Effect is more comic than frightening. 01:13:37 two men in formal wear do somersaults through store, land in trash cans 01:13:49 man on bicycle washing dishes in machine driven by pedal power, tosses them to young boy who catches them all 01:14:15 young girls rush to table, sit down, another girl pulls a lever and a fully set table lowers from the ceiling 01:14:29 CU man buried in sidewalk with safe on top of him, crowd stumbles around wondering what to do, so they get a movie camera and film him 01:14:55 mustachioed man driving in open Model T tries to clean his windshield, then realizes there's no glass in it -- all while roaring down the road. Another man lands from nowhere on the car's roof, falls off, and chases after him. Gradually the still-moving car begins to fall apart. He stops the shell of a car, gets out and primps, posing proudly. 01:16:00 CU man with model of petard, with little doll hanging from the scaffold
Woman In Summer Outfit Picking flowers
MS woman picking flowers, wearing a two piece glamour outfit. CU of her hand with exotic flowers.
Man in hat wipes brow
CU man in suit and hat takes it off, wipes brow with handkerchief
Woman unloading grocery bags
MS woman with grocery bags puts them in trunk of car, with some difficulty (two takes), then gets into car
Woman On Phone
MS woman on phone, talks while taking notes, then hangs up, looking at camera
Hula -hoop girl
MS hula hoop girl in studio, zoom in, which gets a little blurry
Man drinking orange soda
CU man in yachting cap drinking orange soda from a bottle, pan to another man doing same
Teens, woman and man talking
3 teens, two women and man talking together
MS woman at mirror, admiring corsage (focus soft)
MS woman at mirror, admiring corsage (focus soft)
August 3, 1994 - Part 5
(16:00:03) Ms. NOLAN. Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee, my name is Beth Nolan. Since February 1993, 1 have been Associate Counsel to the President. I also serve as the Alternate Designated Agency Ethics Official for the White House; the Counsel to the President serves as the Designated Agency Ethics Official. While serving in the White House, I am on leave from my position as a law professor at The National Law Center, George Washington University, where I have taught courses in legal ethics, Government ethics, and constitutional law. Before I began teaching, I served for 4 years, from 1981 to 1985, as a staff attorney in the Office of Legal Counsel of the Department of Justice. As alternate ethics official, my responsibilities include matters arising under the conflict of interest laws and the standards of conduct, as well as other matters concerning Administration ethics Policy. My job involves frequent consultation with ethics officials throughout the Executive Branch. My only contacts with a Treasury official on this matter fell into this area of consultation. I had several telephone conversations with Dennis Foreman, the Designated Agency Ethics Official of the Department of the Treasury. I spoke with Mr. Foreman initially at the request of Bernard Nussbaum, then Counsel to the President, regarding the recusal standards applicable to Presidential appointees as they affected Roger Altman, Deputy Secretary of the Treasury and Interim CEO of the Resolution Trust Corporation. 90 Mr. Foreman and I discussed the general standards, and he told me that he intended to contact Art Kusinski, the Designated Agency Ethics Official of the RTC, and Steven Potts, the Director of the Office of Government Ethics, to evaluate the recusal issue. This made clear to me that a decision process was in place in which the recusal decision would receive serious consideration by the appropriate officials. It is my recollection that I had a brief phone call with Mr. Nussbaum in which I reported these matters to him, and that I received no follow-up instructions to do anything further. Mr. Foreman later advised me he had been in contact with both the RTC and OGE and that a legal memorandum had been prepared and forwarded to Mr. Altman setting forth the standards applicable to his recusal. These phone calls are the total of my contacts with the Treasury on this matter. My conversations with Mr. Foreman were fully consistent with the duties of a White House ethics lawyer, and, indeed, the Director of the Office of Government Ethics has determined that they were "similar to the types of discussions that take place daily between Executive Branch ethics officials and the White House ethics expert on matters involving Presidential appointees." I will be happy to answer your questions. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Mr. Eggleston, let me start with you. On March 1, 1993, you were serving as Associate Counsel to the President and as I understand it, you reported to Bernie Nussbaum, who was at that time Counsel to the President; is that right? Mr. EGGLESTON. Sir, it was March 1, 1994. 1 didn't start in the White House until September 1993. The CHAIRMAN, Let the record make that correction, 1994. At that time in 1994, March 1, you would have been reporting to Bernie Nussbaum, Counsel to the President; is that right? Mr. EGGLESTON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Did you also report to Harold Ickes, who was Deputy Chief of Staff to the White House? Mr. EGGLESTON. I did not report directly to Mr. Ickes. On an asneeded basis, I provided legal advice or support to him. He was not MY direct support-- excuse me, direct report. The CHAIRMAN. Did Mr. Ickes assign you a task of writing a memo concerning the Rose Law Firm? Mr. EGGLESTON. He did. The CHAIRMAN. Tell me what you were specifically assigned to do in that memo. Mr. EGGLESTON. I believe that that assignment came sometime. certainly after the February 24th hearing, which took place before. this Committee. I don't recall whether it was Friday, Saturday or Sunday. It was before the date of the memo--the date of my memo is actually February 28th. I think I wrote this sometime over the: weekend. Mr. Ickes essentially asked me if I would prepare a memo on where things stand now. A number of things had occurred sort of at the hearing that I think changed between the hearing and the following day that changed where things stood- 91 The CHAIRMAN. Let me stop you. You say "where things stand." What "things" are we talking about? Mr. EGGLESTON. Probably the easiest way for me to do it, I do not have a real clear recollection of exactly what he asked me to do, but I'm fairly confident that my memorandum responded to whatever it was that he asked me to do. I think that he asked me, as I recall, generally to set forth where the matter stood with regard to the Rose Law Firm, which had frankly, Mr. Chairman, been the matter that had dominated, as I recall, 75 percent of the hearing that took place here on February Keith.
Pov Rom
Pov rom
Near Chilcoat passMts from trainTwo flags:...
Near Chilcoat passMts from trainTwo flags: British & US
Lake Bennett from train
Lake Bennett from train