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Overview of Plaza San Martin with cars and buses driving around the square, adult Peruvian men and women pedestrians walking around the plaza; statue of Jose de San Martin visible in the middle of the plaza. Two lanes of traffic traveling down street; one lane turns onto another street, mixed adult pedestrians waiting to cross street.
ON PREVIEW CASSETTE 95519 Peru, Inca Ruins
Peru, misc.
Peru: The Vanishing Animal"
Peru: The Vanishing Animal"
August 2, 1994 - Part 3
(00:05:11) Senator SARBANES. Now, that's a different answer than the path I seem to be taking, was led down when I was being told there was no specific conversation. Mr. STEINER. Well, Senator Senator SARBANES. See, it's interesting because Mr. Altman did the same thing when he was before our Committee, and we have to parse your words very carefully here. Now, you do, as I understand it, recall conversations in which Mr. Altman expressed the view on this question; is that correct? Mr. STEINER. It's conceivable-I can't recall any conversations directly that Senator SARBANES Strike the word "directly." 375 Mr. STEINER. I believe Mr. Altman has said that it is not surprising that our recollections differ and they do differ. Senator SARBANES. Why isn't it surprising? Mr. STEINER. We're speaking about events that took place many months ago, Senator. Senator SARBANES. Do you think Ms. Hanson, of her own volition, would go to Nussbaum in the White House to give him this information? Mr. STEINER. I think she might, yes. Senator SARBANES. You do. She said yesterday that it was not conceivable to her that she would do this. Mr. STEINER. I did not listen to her testimony, Senator. Senator SARBANES. That's what she said. Do you disagree with that? Mr. STEINER. She certainly has a better sense of her own responsibilities and course of action than I do. Senator SARBANES. Would it be your evaluation that she might go do it on her own? What's your evaluation of that? You know her. You know Altman. You know how it works. You know the interaction between them. Mr. STEINER. As I said, Senator, I think it's possible that she would do it under her own direction, Senator SARBANES. Mr. Nye, what do you think about that? Mr. NYE. My understanding of those events, and at the time I was not aware of them, was that she actually informed Bernie Nussbaum at the end of a meeting that they were having already on the subject of a Waco, Texas report involving the AFT--that's my understanding recently gained. To the extent that she would have, at the end of the meeting, pulled him aside and informed him of that does not seem incredulous to me. Senator SARBANES. Do you think she did it because she had been directed to do so by Mr. Altman? Mr. NYE. That I have no knowledge of Senator SARBANES. You've never heard any discussions by either Altman or Hanson on this point? Mr. NYE. At what time? Senator SARBANES, Any time. Mr. NYE. In the very Senator SARBANES. I am asking questions in the most general fashion to elicit the most responsive and broadest answers. I want to establish that as a premise. And therefore, I don't want an answer that says, well, now, if specifically-and then you exclude it out. So I'm asking you at any time Mr. NYE. Right. And what I'd like to, respond Senator SARBANES. -directly or indirectly. Mr. NYE. What I'd like to respond to you and that's why I was asking your time frame, was that I have had one conversation with Roger Altman in response to a press article recently on the question of the difference of recollection. It was the Sue Schmidt article, I forget the date, but it was a Sunday article recently, the past cople weeks. In it-and his response to this was simply that it was an honest difference of recollection, and given the event happened approximately a year ago or so, I took that to be the case. 376 Senator DODD. Senator Sarbanes, though, asked-you know this person. You know Jean Hanson, don't you? Mr. NYE. Yes, I do. Senator DODD. Tell us about her demeanor. This is almost a demeanor question, a stylistic question. A lawyer with a major law firm, an independent person, obviously a successful individual. Did she strike you as the kind of person who on her own direction her" own volition would decide to go down and see the Chief Legal Counsel for the Presidency at the White House? Mr. NYE. That's what I was just trying to explain. I believeagain, this is all recently. I wasn't aware of this at the time, but I believe that she attended a meeting on another subject all together, and then pulled him aside at the end Senator DODD. You're not being responsive to the question. I'm' not trying to hold you to some rigid standard here. I'm asking you an opinion about somebody. We don't know her you do. Mr. NYE, My response to the Senator was simply that I didn't think it was inconceivable. Senator SARBANES. Mr. Chairman, I know my time is up. Could I just put a couple questions to Mr. Foreman? Mr. Foreman, bow long have you been the Deputy General Counsel for the Treasury? Mr. FOREMAN. January 1991, Senator. Senator SARBANES. And how long have you been the Chief Legal Officer there? Mr. FOREMAN. I'm sorry. I've been the Chief Ethics Officer for the same period of time.
August 2, 1994 - Part 3
(00:10:22) Senator SARBANES. I'm sorry. Mr, FOREMAN. It comes with the position of Deputy General Counsel, comes the Designated Agency Ethics Official position as well. Senator SARBANES, Did you-I'm Dot quite clear on your background. Did you come to this position working up through the civil service ranks, or was there a political dimension to your obtaining this position? Mr. FOREMAN. Sir, I think both. I was a Career Senior Executive Service Lawyer in the Department of State. I resigned from that position in the summer of 1988 for a few months, worked as a volunteer in the Bush campaign, went back to a career position in the State Department and then was selected for the Deputy General Counsel person as a political noncareer appointee. Senator SARBANES. I see. So you left your job in 1988 to go into George Bush's political campaign; is that correct? Mr. FOREMAN. No money, as a volunteer, that's correct, sir. Senator SARBANES. Then after the campaign, what happened? Mr. FOREMAN. After the campaign, I got a call from the State Department Legal Advisor's Office where I had worked, and they asked me to return to a career attorney position, and I did so. Senator SARBANES. And then what happened? Mr. FOREMAN. Then I was selected for a Career Senior Executive service position as an assistant legal advisor a year or so later, and then in December, I guess, of 1990, 1 got a call from Ms. HansonJeanne Archibald at the Treasury Department asking me to come 377 interview for 'the position of Deputy General Counsel which I did not even know or was aware was open, Senator SARBANES. That was a political appointment? Mr. FOREMAN. The position was a noncareer position, Senator. Senator SARBANES. Noncareer. Mr. FOREMAN. That's correct. So I went from a career senior executive position to a noncareer senior executive position. Senator SARBANES. Then I take it our name had been floating around in the personnel office at the White House for that Mr. FOREMAN. It may have been, Senator, but my name was specifically suggested to Ms. Archibald by another former General Counsel of the Treasury Department; that she might be interested in interviewing me for the position. Senator SARBANES. Then when the new Administration came in? Mr. FOREMAN. When the new Administration came in, Mr. Altman met with me, asked me to stay on as Acting General Counsel until a new General Counsel bad been confirmed. Senator SARBANES. And then what happened? Mr. FOREMAN, Then Ms. Hanson asked me to stay on. Senator SARBANES. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. The Committee will recess now, and we'll resume at approximately 2:15 p.m. (00:13:25) [Recess.] (00:13:27) Hearings hosts DON BODE and NINA TOTENBERG close out morning coverage (00:15:16) WETA logo, PBS funding credits (end of tape #10067)