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August 1, 1994 - Part 5
(17:25:33) Senator DODD. As a detailee, in effect? Ms. HANSON, Not as a detailee. The term "detailee" has specific meanings. I continued to, at all times, fulfill my Treasury functions and, in addition, took on, from time to time as he asked me, RTC related functions. Senator DODD. Was there ever a conversation between you and Mr. Altman that established this relationship with regard to the RTC? Did he ever say to you, by the way, because I've been saddled with this responsibility until we get a permanent CEO, I'm asking you to perform this function as well? Ms. HANSON. I don't recall that there was a specific conversation. I don't think it was necessary. You have to keep in mind also that Secretary Bentsen is the Chairman of the oversight board---- Senator DODD. I understand that. Ms. HANSON. -and Treasury has, historically, always been involved, to one extent or another, in RTC matters. Senator DODD. I appreciate that and I'm not questioning that, I just seemed to be making that linkage because it seems-again we all discussed earlier today the benefit of maybe going back and revisiting this-the law requires Senate confirmed personnel to assume the responsibilities when a vacancy occurs. I think that's a legitimate question for the Senate to consider. Let me ask a series of questions. You've been a sworn witness here and these are very important questions. They go, as far as I'm concerned-this Senator is concerned-to the heart of the matter, and that has to do with whether or not any, actions were taken which in any way have thrown these cases off track. I'd like to address a series of questions to you regarding your actions that might have contributed, in any way, to sharing information that caused these cases to be treated differently than they have been. Ms. Hanson, when you learned about the criminal referrals in September 1993, did you take any action, or did you direct anyone under your authority to take any action, to obstruct to impede the handling of, or forwarding of these referrals to the Department of Justice? Ms. HANSON. Absolutely not. Senator DODD. Did you ever actually read the criminal referrals? Ms. HANSON. No, sir. Senator DODD. Did any officials at the White House ask you to take any action, or instruct you to have anyone else take any action, an action, to obstruct or impede the RTC's handling of these criminal referrals? Ms. HANsON. No, sir. Senator DODD. To our knowledge, did anyone at the Treasury, the RTC, the White House, or any other agency take any action to impede, or in any way interfere with, the criminal referrals? 110 Ms. HANSON. Not to my knowledge. Senator DODD. Did you, or anyone else that you're aware of ob- struct, or otherwise interfere with, the RTC's civil case involving Madison? Ms. HANSON. Absolutely not. Senator DODD. Mr. Chairman, those, to me, are the important questions. I know it's been raised by others that someone may have done something with the information, but trying to prove a no tive gets very, very, very difficult. So, at that point, Mr. Chairman, I'll be glad to yield my time. The CHAMMAN. Thank you, Senator Dodd. Senator Gramm. Senator DAMATO. Mr. Chairman, if I might, I'd like to- yield to Senator Mack, so he can continue along his line of questioning. The CHAiRmAN. Senator Mack. Senator MACK, I thank my friend, and thank you, Mr. Chairman, ' I want to pick up on the confidentiality issue for a moment. I understand that you 've had lots of conversations and you're not going to remember everything, but in both his testimony this morning and in his earlier deposition, Mr. Roelle went on at some length about the discussion about confidentiality, saying, in essence, it really should be only for the CEO, Mr. Altman's ears, nobody else. Does an of this ring a bell? Ms. HANSON. No, sir. Senator MACK. I understand that, then, after you were tasked by by Mr. Altman ' you had a meeting with Mr. Nussbaum and Cliff Sloan on September 29, 1993, and discussed the fact that the criminal referrals were on their way to the Department of Justice. Is that correct? Ms. HANsON. I had a conversation with Mr. Nussbaum and Mr. Sloan about the press leaks. Senator MACK. Let's talk about that. You just said you knew there were going to be press leaks, but there was no discussion about what was going to be leaked? Ms. HANSON, We had a discussion. I don't remember the specifies of the discussion, sir, but we had a discussion that criminal referrals, in which the President and Mrs. Clinton were named as possible witnesses, were going to-information relating to the criminal referrals would be leaked to the press.
August 1, 1994 - Part 5
(17:30:47) Senator MACK. As I understand it, even the Justice Department didn't have knowledge of those referrals at that point. Is that right? Ms. HANSON. The Justice Department wasn't going to have to deal with the press inquiries.Senator MACK. That was not my question. My question only concerns timing. On September 29, 1993, the Justice Department did not have the referrals. Correct? Ms. HANSON. Sir, I don't believe so, but I don't know. Senator MACK. Is it your testimony that Mr. Altman knew of, and approved of, your conversation with Mr. Nussbaum on September 29, 1993? Ms. HANSON. Yes, it is. Senator MACK. At that point in time, September 29, 1993, were you aware of any publicity regarding the new criminal referrals? Ms. HANSON. Was I aware of any publicity? I don't know what that means. Articles? I was unaware of any articles. Senator MACK. You didn't have any direct knowledge, at that time, that there was a leak? Ms. HANSON. I had spoken with Mr. Roelle 2 days before. I knew the referrals were on their way to Washington. I understood that they would leak as soon as they arrived. I thought Mr. Roelle was a very pod source of that knowledge. Knowing that, I inquired as to whether or not his view was that these referrals were going to leak. I had no way of knowing whether or not they bad leaked at the actual time I spoke with Mr. Nussbaum. On the other hand, it was very clear from the Early Bird on September 30, 1993, that they had leaked. From the chronology that was just released yesterday from the IGs, it states that on September 23, 1993, Mr. Dudine, the Director of the Office of Investigations of the RTC, had reported that a reporter was getting close to something on the criminal referrals. That was a full week before I spoke with Mr. Senator MACK. But you bad no actual knowledge? Ms. HANSON. But I had a very good source of Senator MACK That was not my question, Ms. Hanson. My question was, at that time, did you have any personal, actual knowledge? Ms. HANSON. I did not. Senator MACK. Did you have a subsequent conversation with Mr. Sloan of the White House Counsel's Office on September 30, 1993? And what was the substance of that conversation? Ms. HANSON. I have been recently shown Mr. Sloan's notes, in fact, I may have first seen them when I spoke with the Committee staff. I don't have an independent recollection of that telephone conversation-of that conversation. I've seen the notes, but I don't have a recollection of that conversation. Senator MACK. We have seen testimony that there was a phone conversation. MS. HANSON. That's my understanding of the testimony. Senator MACK. The phone conversation was between you and Mr. Sloan on September 30, 1993, and it must have been a fairly detailed conversation, because Mr. Sloan's notes indicate that nine criminal referrals in the investigation bad been forwarded to Washington. Ms. HANSON, I'm not saying, sir, that it didn't happen; I'm just ,a . saying I don't remember it. Senator MACK. But you didn't remember. Mr. Sloan, now, has testified he had received this information in a phone conversation with you on September 30, 1993, and he has gone so far as to have extensive notes on that, and notes outlining the nine referrals. Ms. HANSON. Sir, I'm not disputing Mr. Sloan's recollection. I'm just saying I don't recollect it. Senator MACK. In addition to his notes about the nine criminal referrals, Is, he also said there were allegations concerning Mr. Tuck a former Senator J. William Fulbright of Arkansas, and Mr. McDougal I in connection with the RTC. The RTC bad concerns about diversion of funds to Mr. Clinton's 1984 112 campaign, and the campaign was, being examined as a possible conspirator. Does any of this sound new to you? Ms. HANSON. I don't have a copy of the notes in front of me The CHAIRMAN. Here is a set here, can you take them please. Just pass them over to this gentleman. While you study those Ms. Hanson, were those available to you as a reference in your deposition? Were you shown those then, or just quizzed about them?
Gary Player Takes Open
The US Golf Open goes into overtime as Gary Player battles Kel Nagle in a playoff round. Five strokes ahead on the 8th hole, Player breezes in and announces, he is donating his purse to Cancer Research and for the development of junior golfers. Player is not interested in the money, he only wants the title. Throngs walking down where the golfers are going to tee off going into overtime. Kel Nagle swinging his golf club, golf fans are standing behind him. Sport spectators, men wearing sunglasses and women with sunglasses and hats. Gary Player and Kel Nagle walking to the next hole. Player makes a short putt. The two golfers Player and Nagle shaking hands, golf caddy holding the flag.